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Re: [css3-mediaqueries] Width/Height Clarifications

From: Brad Kemper <brkemper@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 07:32:16 -0700
Cc: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>, www-style@w3.org
Message-Id: <8A69369A-0317-40FB-80CA-CE6A001B3109@comcast.net>
To: Anne van Kesteren <annevk@opera.com>


On Jun 4, 2008, at 3:21 AM, Anne van Kesteren wrote:

>
> On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 22:59:14 +0200, fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net 
> > wrote:
>> In the definitions of 'width' and 'height', the spec says:
>>
>>   # For continuous media, this is the width of the viewport
>>   # (as described by CSS2, section 9.1.1 [CSS21]). For paged
>>   # media, this is the width of the page box (as described
>>   # by CSS2, section 13.2 [CSS21]).
>>
>> Opera's 'projection' mode is in some sense both paged and
>> continuous. In this case you would want to use the viewport
>> size, not the page box size (which depends on the content).

Does it really? I thought that the reason "The size of a page box  
cannot be specified in CSS 2.1" is because it really ends up being the  
sheet size minus the page margins. The spec says that "[t]he page area  
includes the boxes laid out on that page", but it does not say that  
the page area size equals the total size of the boxes laid out on the  
page. An ocean can "include" fish, but the volume of the ocean is  
bigger than the total volume of the fish in it.

Thus, it seems to me that page box size is really the sheet size minus  
the page margins. So Opera's "projection" mode, if it has a page box  
size, that size would be equal to the screen size minus the page  
margins. If no page margins then it equals the screen size, which is  
also the viewport size because Opera sets the viewport to fill the  
screen.


>> In print media also the page box size can change: all even
>> pages can be one size, all odd pages another, for instance.
>> So Media Queries should not be referring to the page box.
>> I'd suggest the terms "paper size" or "page size".

But it is really the page box size that we care about. If the sheet is  
8.5" wide, but the margins are all 3 inches wide, then only looking at  
the sheet size does not tell me what I need to know. Maybe min-page- 
box is the thing to look at (the smallest page box of a series of  
sheets).

>> (The
>> interaction of media queries and the 'size' property is a
>> horrible mess, but I'm hoping we can deal with that in the
>> Paged Media spec.)
>>
>> The definitions say that 'height' "describes the height of
>> the rendering surface of the output device". This would be
>> a more appropriate description for 'device-height', which
>> is currently described as  "the height of the output device".
>> The viewport of a browser window can be smaller or larger
>> than the height of the screen (which is "the rendering
>> surface of the output device").

Even so, it is still the viewport that matters the most. If you make  
your viewport bigger than your screen, then you must expect that some  
of your content will not be visible.

>> And the 'device-height'
>> query isn't intended to refer to the height of the physical
>> monitor box, but rather to the height of the screen.
>
> FWIW, as far as I can tell these are the only issues that are  
> holding us back from moving
>
>  http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-mediaqueries/
>
> to Last Call again (for the last time hopefully!). I can look into  
> making some changes, but I'd appreciate input if you have any  
> concrete ideas.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> -- 
> Anne van Kesteren
> <http://annevankesteren.nl/>
> <http://www.opera.com/>
>
Received on Wednesday, 4 June 2008 14:33:02 GMT

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