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RE: [CSS2.1] Position of list-item markers

From: Saloni Mira Rai <salonir@microsoft.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:56:30 -0800
To: Andrew Fedoniouk <news@terrainformatica.com>, fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
CC: "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>, Sushanth Rajasankar <Sushanth.Rajasankar@microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <E8245DDD23CF8443A20CDFABD553C2FD415A0F58BE@NA-EXMSG-C112.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

Hello,

I don't think we have arrived at a viable solution yet.

1. There seems to be agreement that currently spec'd behavior is not desirable - floats come in between outside marker and LI content. The spec says the list marker is outside the LI principal box. As per the spec, when a float precedes the LI, it will move the text inside.
IMO if we want to change the behavior of floats with LI we need to change the definition of either "outside" or the principal box.
Clearly, placing the marker after the floater is non compliant according to the current spec. Granted list marker positioning is undefined, the fact that it must be outside principle box is clearly stated.


2. As per fantasai's email:
      Floats are complicated, and I don't think we should handle them in 2.1. I suggest we add
            | The position of the list-item marker in the presence of floats is
            | undefined in CSS2.1.
I disagree as I don't think this solves the problem. It just postpones it. If the spec behavior doesn't match designer expectations, current implementations OR real world sites (problem seen on yahoo and msn), then we should change it. Furthermore, current spec definition will not be more acceptable in CSS3 and we will have to introduce another property or a change.
We are trying to lock down this behavior for IE8 and would really like to define this more clearly.


3. Tentative alternate proposal - redefine "list-item-position: outside" to mean "position the marker at an x-pixel offset from the start of the first line of the list item". This would be to the left if the list item is LTR, and to the right if it is RTL. Text align would have no impact. The marker would be overlapping the float in the same scenario, however the designer could use margins to fix this. I believe this is also very close to what other browsers do today.
Caveat, for list items with border the marker may end up drawing on top of the border.


Thanks,
Saloni

-------------------------------------
Saloni Mira Rai
IE Developer Experience PM
425-421-8505
Received on Wednesday, 3 December 2008 01:57:14 GMT

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