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CSS WG weekly meeting minutes 2008-04-23

From: Gao, Ming (ICS, San Diego) <ming.gao@hp.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 19:08:33 +0000
To: "www-style@w3c.org" <www-style@w3c.org>
Message-ID: <93703EDD1F125544A59BD25384B175621F49B3F444@G1W0485.americas.hpqcorp.net>

Meeting: Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) Working Group Weekly Teleconference

Date: April 23, 2008
Time: 09:04am to 10:00am PDT

Attendees:
Bert Bos
Arron Eicholz
Elika Etemad
Daniel Glazman
Ming Gao
Anne Van Kesteren
Peter Linss
Alex Mogilevsky
Jason Cranford Teague

Official regrets:
Steve Zilles
David Baron
Molly Holzschlag
Cesar Acebal
Mohamed ZERGAOUI


Scriber: Ming Gao


 Topic: updates on actions
 --------------------

 action #22
 ----------
 arron: test cases being created; in the middle of reviewing them with my team member

 action #57
 ----------
 daniel: this action is for Peter regarding the disclaimer on IRC log

 daniel: Q: see the mail exchanges on the mailing list, regarding hosting
 daniel: IMO, need to be hosted on W3C, because
 daniel: we are presenting W3C CSS
 daniel: membership need to agree if we decide to host it on the 3rd party
 daniel: Bert, what's your opinion regarding NOT putting everything to public, could you elaborate?
 bert: I am missing a private way to comm with members in the group.
 daniel: Q: is it possible to use W3C logging system for permanent logging?
 bert: currently, it is for logging teleconference, so need resource to change it, but at this moment, (permanent logging) not available
 daniel: Q to Anne: is it reasonable for Anne's friend to implement some private function with his/her logging system?
 fantasai: could use a separate channel (for private communication).
 daniel: if so, what's the point of using IRC channel?
 anne: I would just use public channel
 daniel: if line begins with /me, that line should not be logged.
 daniel: if we decide, for now to go with 3rd hosting, I still want the log to be hosted in W3C, in the future.
 daniel: quick poll: hosting site (inside W3C or outside)
 peter: prefer not to host outside W3C
 daniel: Not outside
 anne: outside is fine
 alex: prefer W3C host
 bert: W3C
 fantasai: no comment
 arron: W3C hosting
 <anne> (Well, I prefer W3C, but that's not an option Bert just told us.)
 jason: W3C hosting
 daniel: AI for myself to ping W3C team on option to host logging inside W3C
 daniel: Q: is it possible in the interim time to host outside?
 fantasai: fine
 alex: fine, but funny that we would have such a tech problem hosting it inside W3C
 daniel: anne, please work with your friend to start hosting; would prefer to add private function
 peter: i.e. hide the /me line


 action #14
 ----------
 by jason
 daniel: overdue
 (jason: I will have the creative Spec ready for the group to consider by next week's meeting.)

 action #20
 ----------
 discussion about WS (whitespace) and Selector

 daniel: there were discussions on www-style mailing list, regarding proposing changes on namespace
 fantasai: not about WS, rather about namespace
 fantasai: changes are made

 daniel: back to topic WS and Selector
 fantasai: I'm confused

 action #22
 -----------------
 arron: regarding test cases, action #22
 arron: a couple of test cases are created. are reviewing them with the initial submitter.

 action #24, #25
 ----------------------
 fantasai: waiting for the submitters to complete the test cases
 peter: should we reset due date?
 fantasai: still wait; reset (or extend) the due date for a month

 action #27, #28, #29
 ---------------------------
 daniel: these are the 3 open AI for Anne
 daniel: AI#47 to be closed
 <trackbot-ng> ACTION-47 Fix wording of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Apr/0166.html closed
 anne: regarding action #27/28/29, I am not working on it (or them) yet; need to reset the due date
 anne: reset to 4 more weeks


 action #34, #50
 ---------------
 daniel: action #34 and #50 for bert
 bert: asked christ, no response yet.
 bert: action #50 will happen soon

 action #44
 ----------
 daniel: aciton #44 for peter
 peter: no time to work on this yet

 action #46
 ----------
 daniel: email sent out yesterday; are starting to collect the info. requesting all vendors to send in comments
 daniel: almost done
 fantasai: time is running out for public to give feedback (due by April)
 daniel: had stressed that the issues are urgent. got a few, still waiting for the rest.
 <fantasai> Since we are collecting feedback from implementors so late.


 Topic: update on WG charter
 ---------------------------
 peter: had updated the charter with feedbacks and put it on the site.
 <plinss> http://www.w3.org/Style/Group/2008/draft-charter2.html
 peter: Q: has anyone had a chance to review it?
 daniel: nobody?
 daniel: everyone should review this document and provide feedback before we sending it to AC
 peter: have incorporated a list of changes from last week's discussion. (removal of liaisonship with i18n, etc)
 peter: using insert log, so should be easy for anyone to see the changes
 peter: all, please review and send in feedbacks via emails
 daniel: all, please review and forward the charter to your (company's respective) AC rep



 Topic: documents to be published
 --------------------------------

 CSSOM view
 ----------
 daniel: regarding offset, should we drop it since it may break compatibility?
 anne: not agree; implementor need this property; to conform to the behavior;
 anne: should just do it
 daniel: fear is that will break implementation
 anne: in order to reach implementation convergence, we need to do so
 <fantasai> anne: four implementations are different
 <fantasai> anne: Safari, Opera, and firefox agree on many cases, but once you look at the details they are not compatible
 anne: figure out the right behavior, and then have the implementation do so
 daniel: Microsoft's view? since they introduce the offset property.
 alex: this won't be any different than other things that break the compatibility
 daniel: then the problem is resolved.
 daniel: anne, is CSSOM ready for publication?
 anne: there is a request for one add'l feature: document view interface
 <fantasai> anne: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2008AprJun/0126.html
 --- quote from the above message ----
 requests to add caretRangeFromPoint besides elementFromPoint so one can detect where a cursor would be placed for a given position.
 --- end of quote from the above message ----
 anne: two approaches: in next version, or put it in and then have an updated working draft
 anne: no strong opinion either way
 daniel: would publish it now, anyone else?
 fantasai: put it into the working draft is better
 fantasai: mark it as at risk so won't hold the spec back
 anne: add it in and release it next week. then in 3 or 4 weeks, move to LC
 anne: could reuse action #27, or create new one
 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-58 - Add caretRangeFromPoint to CSSOM and prepare for publication [on Anne van Kesteren - due 2008-04-30].

 namespace and selectors
 -----------------------
 daniel: namespace document ready to be published, either tomorrow or Friday
 fantasai: no agreement yet, right?
 daniel: then where are we?
 fantasai: draft is ok to be published, nothing other than editorial review is planned.
 anne: still have issues, can't move to PR, need test cases and then use them to validate implementations for PR
 anne: so move to CR first, while working on test cases
 daniel: no objections? done
 <fantasai> RESOLVED: publish Namespaces as CR

 daniel: Selectors, anything missing? should we move on?
 fantasai: there are issues open regarding selectors
 daniel: I will take care the open issues and let spec move on
 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-59 - Move spec to dev.w3.org [on Elika Etemad - due 2008-04-30].

 CSS fonts and Web fonts
 -----------------------
 jason: john (daggett) and me are working on this now
 jason: at next f2f meeting, will discuss the updates (progress)
 jason: receive some public feedbacks regarding
 jason: new features and better way to implement
 <fantasai> jason: want to take back to WD, not clear what status is now : listed as LC but no update since 2002
 jason: also have additional feedbacks from design community
 fantasai: chris lilley is still working on web font (In SVG); jason need to sync up with him
 fantasai: chris is doing this as a CSS module through SVG, not sure the latest status
 jason: when did this happen?
 fantasai: a couple of years ago; it is a SVG work, though still intend to be published through CSS WG.
 anne: was discussed in last f2f, not clear how to resolve it
 fantasai: better touch base with chris. chris said he was working on this.
 jason: so, we are not taking editing of that, right?
 anne: if SVG not currently working on it, we (CSS WG) should (take over)
 anne: 3 interoperable implementations exist. should move on with it.
 peter: I also recall that we said we would collaborate with SVG. defintietly need jason to ping chris
 jason: at least font specification, will move to LC by fall. right after the f2f meeting

 CSS 2.1
 -------
 daniel: only issue is page break issue
 daniel: and licensing issue as well

 daniel: first, page break inside issue
 <fantasai> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/issues/35
 <fantasai> was answered by Bert via email
 bert: Q for alex: what's the problem impl the current spec? or put in 3.0?
 alex: allow property for CSS 3.0?
 alex: not excited about allow property
 alex: override avoid; could be nasty with boundary
 alex: (as a starter), we could show an example
 bert: what's your proposal, alex?
 alex: to define allow, think well (thoroughly) the meaning (of the allow property)
 alex: can't say having a good vision for the future yet
 alex: we do have a good solution for 2.0 though, i.e. removing the behavior from implementation.
 alex: for 3.0, fantasai, do you have a proposal?
 fantasai: would propose no allow either; Melinda, want a 2nd media page spec(?) lot of ideas about paged media.
 fantasai: for 3.0, to tweak the wording: user agent can treat nested avoid as being more avoided, no req or algorithm for e.g. page break, before or after
 fantasai: seems to work fine.
 fantasai: for 2nd paged media spec, if we have good rules, add them and leave them as optional
 fantasai: using profile, or leave them as optional
 fantasai: 2.0 to make the changes, 3.0 to copy them
 alex: more properties are needed to control page break, than not allow page breaks.
 alex: don't know need to add normative in 3.0 to make it happen
 fantasai: allow UAs to experiment
 alex: sound like a reasonable roadmap as stated.
 fantasai: prince to do some experiement, as their intereste lies here
 daniel: done with page break?
 fantasai: need page break resolution for 2.1
 bert: don't like ad-hoc resolution.
 daniel: a compromise?
 bert: happy to let it go, if no other problems (would surface to) hold the spec
 daniel: no one can promise (or predict) that.
 daniel: resolution: make the change proposed by fantasai


 Topic: Logo design competition
 ------------------------------
 jason: talked to my boss, who is good with it.
 jason: AOL could host the competition, as long as no add'l funding or marketing needs
 jason: AOL will be the sponsor
 jason: any objection?
 peter: fine
 daniel: fine


 Topic: final date and location of next f2f meeting
 --------------------------------------------------
 daniel: please respond to the next f2f meeting message.
 alex: ok.
 daniel: asap, I will set the date
 jason: when? need to know asap for booking the flight
 daniel: to set the date and book the conf, by end of this week, if no objection from the WG
 <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2008AprJun/0009.html
 daniel: majority have replied so will go ahead and announce the decision
 <fantasai> RESOLVED: next F2F Cambridge August 20-22
 fantasai: Camrbidge, August 20 to 22, 2008

 Misc:
 -----
 Regrets from anne and bert for the next two weeks

 Meeting adjourned at 10:00am PDT.
Received on Thursday, 24 April 2008 19:09:55 GMT

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