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Re: "non-zero top border" in 8.3.1

From: Andrew Fedoniouk <news@terrainformatica.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:05:19 -0700
Message-ID: <004801c7fa48$64f0f210$f502000a@internal.toppro.net>
To: "Ian Hickson" <ian@hixie.ch>, "Alex Mogilevsky" <alexmog@exchange.microsoft.com>
Cc: "L. David Baron" <dbaron@dbaron.org>, <www-style@w3.org>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ian Hickson" <ian@hixie.ch>
To: "Alex Mogilevsky" <alexmog@exchange.microsoft.com>
Cc: "L. David Baron" <dbaron@dbaron.org>; <www-style@w3.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 2:03 PM
Subject: RE: "non-zero top border" in 8.3.1

> On Tue, 18 Sep 2007, Alex Mogilevsky wrote:
>> I agree we have to be careful when making late changes. I agree updating
>> tests is also a factor to take into account.
>> I am not buying the argument that it shouldn't be changed because the
>> spec is written 8 years ago. The whole reason the spec stayed in a draft
>> for a long time is because it takes time to analyze it to finest detail
>> and find all issues. This is one of them.
> The margin collapsing stuff wasn't written 8 years ago. We had a very long
> meeting in Oslo only a few years ago where we (including Microsoft) came
> up with the text that's now in the draft. It was part of the issues
> process. The recent proposal isn't a new issue, it's just reopening an
> old, previously resolved issue.
> One of the reasons CSS2.1 stayed in draft form for so long was in fact
> that previously resolved issues were reopened several times by new working
> group members.

draft->recommendation process assumes that there are more than zero (at 
UAs implementing the draft in full. If there are no UAs at all that 
the draft then this draft is just a web page with list of desires. Not more.
So to make it recommendation we need to either adjust it to the current
implementation practice/common denominator or to create very strong 
to UA vendors to implement it. I believe that process of making 
should go in both directions. If we are realists of course.

This particular issue with margins, as far as I understand it,
makes real sense for blocks to be replaced in rows by using float attribute.
That is 1) conceptually wrong and fragile anyway and
2) CSS3 is about to have better and technically correct solution.

Andrew Fedoniouk.
Received on Tuesday, 18 September 2007 23:05:59 UTC

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