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Re: Definition of a replaced element

From: Mike Bremford <mike-css@bfo.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 15:01:11 +0000
Message-Id: <18786FDC-5E9B-4986-81B2-B14246CA2130@bfo.co.uk>
To: www-style <www-style@w3.org>

What makes an element replaced? To the best of my knowledge this  
isn't defined in CSS, it's defined by the XML you're formatting -  
XHTML or whatever. But that's where I run out of steam.

> That sounds like a bug in Amaya.

Fair enough - me being lazy and trying to do everything in one file.  
The example I should have given is this:

test.html
---------
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
   <body style="fill:red">
     <object data="test.svg" type="image/svg+xml"></object>
   </body>
</html>

test.svg
--------
<svg width="4cm" height="8cm" version="1.1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/ 
2000/svg">
   <ellipse cx="2cm" cy="4cm" rx="2cm" ry="4cm" />
</svg>

Result: a black ellipse. I'm pretty sure this is the correct behaviour.


Cheers... Mike



On 3 Jan 2007, at 14:15, Martijn wrote:

> On 1/3/07, Mike Bremford <mike-css@bfo.co.uk> wrote:
>> To satisfy Anne and answer your specific question, the CSS Formatter
>> is what's being used to lay out the HTML document - there's a box
>> model and so on. Yes, SVG uses CSS attributes and CSS constructs,  
>> but:
>
> So the properties mentioned at http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/ 
> visuren.html
> defines the CSS Formatte?
> So if the content of the <svg> element would support one of those
> properties (partially), then it would not be a replaced element
> anymore?
>
>> * it doesn't use the CSS formatting rules to lay out the contents of
>> the SVG
>
> Ok, the CSS formatting rules at
> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visuren.html , right?
> Or are there more CSS formatting rules?
>
>> * it doesn't inherit attributes from outside the <svg>...</svg> tags.
>
> That seems to me more the result of being a replaced element, than
> being the cause of being a replaced element, not?
>
> Regards,
> Martijn
>
>> It is an entirely seperate document, and the fact that it uses CSS
>> attributes internally is coincidental and makes no difference to how
>> it's positioned by the CSS formatter that is your browser.
>>
>>
>> Cheers... Mike
>>
>>
>> On 3 Jan 2007, at 13:24, Martijn wrote:
>>
>> > On 1/3/07, Mike Bremford <mike-css@bfo.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> A replaced element is just a "black box" to CSS - the internal
>> >> content of that box is defined by something outside CSS.  
>> Examples are
>> >> SVG graphics as you've pointed out, but also bitmap images, java
>> >
>> > Well, svg can be styled with css, like for instance, 'fill',  
>> 'stroke',
>> > but apparantly svg elements also use css properties like  
>> 'font' (and
>> > derivative), 'direction', 'cursor', etc.
>> > So the <svg> element doesn't seem to me like a "black box" to css.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Martijn
>> >
>> >> applets, flash, and even Text nodes (not immediately obvious, but
>> >> makes sense if you imagine each Text node in the DOM as a box,  
>> with
>> >> an inherent width/height based on the font, the letters and so  
>> on).
>> >>
>> >> For example, consider a bitmap image. Although you can specify a
>> >> width, height etc. which controls how that box is positioned,  
>> there's
>> >> nothing you can do in CSS to control the contents of that box.  
>> That's
>> >> all "replaced element" means.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers... Mike
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 3 Jan 2007, at 12:24, Martijn wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > I was reading this mail thread:
>> >> > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2007Jan/0001.html
>> >> >
>> >> > And it was mentioned that <svg> was a replaced element.
>> >> >
>> >> > When I look at the definition of a replaced element:
>> >> > http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/conform.html#replaced-element
>> >> > Apparently this applies to the <svg> element, right?
>> >> > "An element that is outside the scope of the CSS formatter"
>> >> > So the content of an <svg> element is outside the scope of  
>> the CSS
>> >> > formatter?
>> >> > Wat is exactly is the CSS formatter?
>> >> >
>> >> > Definition of Rendered content:
>> >> > http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/conform.html#rendered-content
>> >> > "The rendered content of a replaced element comes from  
>> outside the
>> >> > source document"
>> >> > That seems to be not the case for the <svg> element, or am I
>> >> > misreading this in some way?
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > Martijn
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Martijn Wargers
>> >> > Help Mozilla!
>> >> > http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/qa/
>> >> > http://www.mozilla.org/contribute/
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Martijn Wargers
>> > Help Mozilla!
>> > http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/qa/
>> > http://www.mozilla.org/contribute/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Martijn Wargers
> Help Mozilla!
> http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/qa/
> http://www.mozilla.org/contribute/
Received on Wednesday, 3 January 2007 15:01:50 GMT

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