W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > December 2007

RE: scroll bar size in width calculations

From: Alex Mogilevsky <alexmog@exchange.microsoft.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 13:09:57 -0800
To: "robert@ocallahan.org" <robert@ocallahan.org>
CC: "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>, Sam Fortiner <samfort@microsoft.com>, Harel Williams <harelw@microsoft.com>, Scott Dickens <sdickens@exchange.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <04F36FB4ED0F85459AA447F72711526F012126B35AFE@DF-GRTDANE-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com>
I agree since there is nearly perfect interoperability, behavior should not change. I would prefer the spec to be more clear here though (current state is somewhere between ambiguous and incorrect).

How about this:

"The space taken up by the scrollbars affects the computation of the dimensions in the rendering model.<INS>Exact effect of scrollbar on formulas in sections 10.3 an 10.6 are UA-specific but UA must ensure that adding or removing scrollbar never changes dimensions of border box of an element. In other words, changes to ‘overflow’ property may affect layout within the element but not layout of any content around it.</INS>"

Ideally, it would tell what exactly happens to ‘width’ and ‘height’ when a scrollbar is added. I think there is enough interop so that formulas can be defined precisely, but that certainly is a bigger change.

As far as affect of scrollbar on available size for content, the interop is far from perfect, that would be something to clarify in CSS3.

From: rocallahan@gmail.com [mailto:rocallahan@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert O'Callahan
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 11:02 AM
To: Alex Mogilevsky
Cc: www-style@w3.org; Sam Fortiner; Harel Williams; Scott Dickens
Subject: Re: scroll bar size in width calculations

On Dec 22, 2007 9:36 AM, Alex Mogilevsky <alexmog@exchange.microsoft.com<mailto:alexmog@exchange.microsoft.com>> wrote:
However the attached example is rendered identical in all browsers we try. Is there something in the spec that requires subtracting scrollbar width from 'width', or is there language elsewhere which gives UA freedom to do so?

I think that language is the sentence you just quoted: "The space taken up by the scrollbars affects the computation of the dimensions in the rendering model."

Anyway, if anything needs to change here it's the spec, since this is interoperably implemented and authors depend on it working the way it does.

Rob
--
"Two men owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he canceled the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?" Simon replied, "I suppose the one who had the bigger debt canceled." "You have judged correctly," Jesus said. [Luke 7:41-43]
Received on Sunday, 23 December 2007 21:10:14 GMT

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