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Re: standard out of the box

From: Barry Rader <brader@boldinternet.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:53:59 -0500
Message-ID: <476C19D7.5080703@boldinternet.com>
To: "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>

"Maybe sniffing out * html and *+html or similar in the CSS could also 
result in the document displaying in legacy mode."

I personally do not believe that IE8 should not do any css sniffing.

The trigger should remain the same in all cases, "the doctype". When the 
doctype is used quirks mode should be off period. If the website is then 
broken it is the websites maintainer responsibility in that case. This 
is not something new standards mode has been around for a while a 
responsible web developer should have accounted for such. This is the 
same problem facing HTML5 as well supporting unclosed tag elements for 
legacy reasons.

I think the onus here is on the website creators. It should not be on 
the browser vendors to fix the workings of peoples non-standard HTML 
practises.

I think the solution here should be pretty simple. If there is a doctype 
the website author is responsible> If there is no doctype then let the 
current quirks mode render it accordingly. No need to give added 
functionality to quirks mode leave it alone. Those people currently 
developing for quirks mode will have the functionality they currently 
know and understand. Those working in standards mode should be 
professional about it and take responsibility for their work.

Those working in quirks mode wanting the added functionality of CSS 
advancements, will need to learn proper HTML/XHTML and to develop within 
standards.

Barry Rader

Alan Gresley wrote:
> Barry Rader wrote:
>  
>> Brad,
>>
>> This is a Problem I deal with every day.
>>
>> However I do have a very simple solution that I use. The following is 
>> pretty standard for all websites I work on.
>>
>>
>> <style type="text/css" id="MasterStyle" media="all" >
>> <!--
>> 	@import url("/include/presentation/css/style.css");
>> -->
>> </style>
>>
>> <!--[if IE 7]>
>> <style type="text/css" id="IE7Style" media="screen" >
>> 	@import url("/include/presentation/css/ie7.css");
>> </style>
>> <![endif]-->
>>
>> <!--[if lt IE 7]>
>> 	<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" 
>> href="/include/presentation/css/ie.css" media="screen" />
>> <![endif]-->
> 
> 
> Well the above gives a clue for one way IE8 can to display legacy "standards mode" or "quirks mode." If it can sniffs out conditional comments a document should display in legacy mode (IE7 engine). Maybe sniffing out * html and *+html or similar in the CSS could also result in the document displaying in legacy mode.
> 
> 
> 
>> Not to say this is the greatest way of dealing with things but it does 
>> do the trick.
>>
>> When IE8 is released every website I have done in the past 2 years 
>> should not have a problem. Unless there is some IE8 specific bugs that I 
>> need to worry about. Then I would be adding the next conditional comment 
>> in my header.
>>
>> <!--[if IE 8]>
>> <style type="text/css" id="IE8Style" media="screen" >
>> 	@import url("/include/presentation/css/ie8.css");
>> </style>
>> <![endif]-->
>>
>> Maybe someone else has a better way of doing this but to me it is simple 
>> enough to setup and work with.
>>
>> Barry Rader
> 
> 
> This is where I differ. Since IE8 (new layout engine "standards mode") is going to be much more of a standard complaint UA, then conditional comments in the html must go. I see no place in a html document including a doctype where such a trigger could appear. Presumably since a standard complaint IE8 is inferring to standard compliant CSS, then the rightful place for such a trigger is inside a CSS comment. This is something for the IE team to consider since what appears inside a comment doesn't really concern the CSS WG since what appears outside these comment should be of more importance.
> 
> 
> Alan
> 
> http://css-class.com/
> 
> 
> 
Received on Friday, 21 December 2007 19:54:26 GMT

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