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RE: bidi-override scope in CSS2 and CSS 2.1

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:08:37 +0100
To: "'Martin Duerst'" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>, "'Bert Bos'" <bert@w3.org>
Cc: <www-style@w3.org>, <public-i18n-core@w3.org>, "'Masayasu Ishikawa'" <mimasa@w3.org>
Message-ID: <001801c6d58a$40788080$6401a8c0@w3cishida>

Thanks Martin for saying what I was thinking.  I also wonder why this is so,
and wishing I'd spotted it earlier.

I know HTML's bdo element is inline only, but XHTML 2's rlo attribute can be
applied to block level elements, and I can't see why you'd have to add extra
inline markup if you wanted to override the text in say two or three
contiguous paragraphs using CSS.

In fact, I think this could also lead to some confusing results given code
such as:

<div dir="rlo">Inline only text.
     <p>Some text in a block.</p>
     <p>Some more text.</p>
	Some more inline text.
     </div>

Can we change it?

RI


============
Richard Ishida
Internationalization Lead
W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)

http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/
http://www.w3.org/International/
http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Duerst [mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp] 
> Sent: 10 September 2006 20:14
> To: Bert Bos; Richard Ishida
> Cc: www-style@w3.org; public-i18n-core@w3.org
> Subject: Re: bidi-override scope in CSS2 and CSS 2.1
> 
> [I'm mostly offline at the moment due to travel]
> 
> Given the spec text that Richard has copied in his email, 
> what Bert says below seems to be correct, but I have tried to 
> make some sense of it, and can't. What's the reason for 
> having bidi-override apply to the direct inline descendents 
> of an element only? It doesn't seem to make sense from an 
> user point of view, and it doesn't seem to make sense from an 
> implementer's point of view, and I can't immagine that we 
> designed it that way when we designed it (which was
> 9 or 10 years ago. Any explanations, anybody?
> 
> Regards,    Martin.
> 
> At 01:44 06/09/09, Bert Bos wrote:
> >
> >On Friday 08 September 2006 17:57, Richard Ishida wrote:
> >> Suppose my stylesheet says that where I have dir="rlo" I 
> apply a bidi 
> >> override to my (say) XHTML2 text.
> >
> >You mean the style sheet has the following?
> >
> >    [dir=rlo] { unicode-bidi: bidi-override }
> >
> >>
> >> CSS 2 says:
> >
> >Forget about the old CSS2 Rec. It is progressively being obsoleted 
> >first by the revised edition ("CSS 2.1") and then by the 
> various CSS3 
> >modules as they arrive. (Unfortunately, CSS 2.1 is still a 
> WD, but in 
> >practice it has much fewer bugs than the old Rec.)
> >
> >> CSS 2.1 says:
> >>
> >> "For inline-level elements this creates an override. For 
> block-level, 
> >> table-cell, table-caption, or inline-block elements this 
> creates an 
> >> override for inline-level descendents not within another 
> block-level, 
> >> table-cell, table-caption, or inline-block element."
> >>
> >> Does that mean that only the text "Inline only text." in 
> this example 
> >> below actually has the bidi algorithm overridden?
> >>
> >> <div dir="rlo">Inline only text.
> >>      <p>Some text in a block.</p>
> >>      <p>Some more text.</p>
> >>      </div>
> >
> >Correct. (Under the assumption that the Ps are block-level, 
> which they 
> >normally are.)
> >
> >
> >
> >Bert
> >-- 
> >  Bert Bos                                ( W 3 C ) 
> http://www.w3.org/
> >  http://www.w3.org/people/bos                              W3C/ERCIM
> >  bert@w3.org                             2004 Rt des 
> Lucioles / BP 93
> >  +33 (0)4 92 38 76 92            06902 Sophia Antipolis 
> Cedex, France
> 
> 
> #-#-#  Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University
> #-#-#  http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp       
> mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp     
> 
Received on Monday, 11 September 2006 10:08:51 GMT

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