W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > October 2005

Re: Simple template-based editing

From: Lachlan Hunt <lachlan.hunt@lachy.id.au>
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:09:14 +1000
Message-ID: <4341C82A.4070509@lachy.id.au>
To: Daniel Glazman <daniel.glazman@disruptive-innovations.com>
CC: www-style@w3.org

Daniel Glazman wrote:
> Lachlan Hunt wrote:
>> Actually, no.  If you factor in the need for separation of 
>> presentation from content, you have the best argument against 
>> preserving presentation in copy & paste operations, which, IMHO, 
>> should never be done by editors under any circumstances; or at least 
>> not by default, as is unfortunately 
> Lachlan, that is so far from customers' needs

No it's not.  As a customer, that is one of my needs in any form of 
WYSIWYG editor, and one of the many reasons why WYSIWYG editors are not 
suitable for use.

> You are thinking markup editors, I am thinking wysiwyg markup editors.

No, I was thinking of WYSIWYG markup editors too.  If, by markup 
editors, you mean like code view, then I expect only plain text to be 
pasted, which is at least what happens in most editors I've used.

> There is not a single reason on earth why, if you do wysiwyg editing, you should
> not allow the user to copy styles too.

It's OK to allow the user to copy styles too, if needed, but it 
certainly shouldn't be the default behaviour.

> Of course, you should allow the user to "reset" styles after pasting
> if he/she wants/needs to, but that's trivial to implement.

Why should I, as a user, have to take steps to "reset styles" and strip 
out unwanted presentational remains, left over from the source document, 
when that is exactly what is needed 99.9% of the time.  For the 
remaining very rare occasion when retaining presentation is desired, its 
usually trivial to restore it manually, but it may be useful for some if 
the editor provided a way to do it.

> A document _is_ structure + presentation. Why should a user action preserve
> only the first part of it?

No, a document is structure + semantics + content.  Presentation is a 
separate layer provided by a stylesheet, and the document's own 
stylesheet(s) should be used, not those from another document.

Lachlan Hunt
Received on Tuesday, 4 October 2005 00:09:29 UTC

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