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Re: Initial Value

From: Matthew Raymond <mattraymond@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 12:28:19 -0400
Message-ID: <429DE223.2010900@earthlink.net>
To: Felix Miata <mrmazda@ij.net>
CC: www-style@w3.org

Felix Miata wrote:
> Mikko Rantalainen wrote Wed, 01 Jun 2005 17:12:58 +0300:
>>If you do understand the algorithm and propose a change to it,
>>please, say so. Currently it seems like you've misunderstood how
>>this is supposed to work.
> 
> I've already said that previous explanations about how it is supposed to
> work are clear. Again I'm saying that the plain language of 15.8 does
> not clearly match these explanations of how it is supposed to work.

    Sure it does...

 From "4.3.3 Percentages":

| Percentage values are always relative to another value,
| for example a length. Each property that allows percentages
| also defines the value to which the percentage refers.

 From "15.7 Font size: the 'font-size' property":

| Percentages: refer to parent element's font size

    Put the two together above and you find that any percentage used in 
'font-size' refers to a percentage of the parent element's font size. 
End of story. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $100. It NEVER says 
ANYWHERE that the percentage in 'font-size' can be ANYTHING other than a 
percentage of the font size of the parent.

    Furthermore, "70%" replaces "medium", so why would it be a 
percentage of "medium" (the value it's replacing) to begin with?

> Look at the broader context of my previously stated interpretation. We
> see later in 15.8 that if font: is followed by any of
> [caption|icon|menu|message-box|small-caption|status-bar] that cascade is
> wholly disregarded.

    System fonts are collections of font properties. If you to, for 
instance, change the font of the menus in Windows, it lets you set 
values equivalent to the CSS properties font-family, font-weight, 
font-style, font-size and color. Furthermore, you can only use one of 
these key words on it's own, so this is valid...

| font: menu;

...but this isn't:

| font: 70% menu;

    Since a system font can theoretically replace ALL the properties, 
those properties that are not replaced in actuality must not inherit, or 
else you could get some serious problems with presentation on specific 
platforms.

 > This context supplies more support to my
> interpretation that reset truly should mean reset, to the computed value
> of medium, before the value 70% can be applied.

    Even if it did, the percentage is still defined as the parent by 
'font-size'.

> Furthermore, I submit that, regardless of what everyone else here
> interprets the language of 15.8 to mean currently, reset in font:
> *should* mean reset to computed value in every case, not just in the
> system font cases, and that inherit(ance) only apply when it is an
> explicit value for font:.

    There is no issue of inheritance. Percentage for 'font-size' refers 
to the parent, just like "width: 50%" is half the width of the parent 
element. If you want a percentage of an absolute size, you're going to 
either have to specify via point size, or give the element a parent that 
has the absolute font size you want, then use percentages as defined.
Received on Wednesday, 1 June 2005 16:28:27 GMT

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