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Re: Proposal: :column pseudo-class

From: Laurens Holst <lholst@students.cs.uu.nl>
Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 13:17:09 +0200
Message-ID: <42C91AB5.3010405@students.cs.uu.nl>
To: Orion Adrian <orion.adrian@gmail.com>
CC: www-style@w3.org

Orion Adrian schreef:

>On 7/2/05, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch> wrote:
>>On Sat, 2 Jul 2005, Orion Adrian wrote:
>>>What is the purpose of CSS? Is it to?
>>>1) Provide presentational elements needed by HTML?
>>>2) Provide layouts for GUIs?
>>>3) Provide styling for GUIs?
>>>4) Style documents?
>>>5) Something else?
>>All of the above.
>>CSS's primarily goal is to allow people (users and document authors) to
>>take semantic markup and present it as they wish. Semantic markup could be
>>in the form of anything from simple static documents all the way to fully
>>fledged applications, although exactly where the line is drawn is an issue
>>that is often hotly debated between CSS working group members.
>>(Personally I think CSS should address all styling needs from static
>>documents up to applications as complex as Firefox or Thunderbird, whose
>>UIs are indeed styled with CSS, but others think that even going as far as
>>applying CSS to Google Maps or GMail is too far, and would draw the line
>>at or near pages no more interactive than, e.g. the Google search page.)
>The page needs updating then. It's pretty clear that CSS is a document
>styling language.
>Design is tricky. Creeping featurism can take an excellent application
>and make it terrible at everything.
>It has been said that this will be CSS's fate.
>One recent user study of Office users discovered that the one thing
>they wanted most of all, was not more features, but for each of the
>features to be done better.
>Looking at the giant trees in California is said to bring a sense of
>awe. Big seems to do that and desires for gradure, especially when
>linked to our own fates, can be very tempting. But it's not doing the
>general populace any good.
>If what you say is true and that CSS is trying to do all those things,
>then it is loosing focus. It's like a movie that can't decide if it's
>a comedy, a tragedy or a horror film. Some combinations work, but
>focus is needed.
>I would rather have a UI language and a document language that were
>separate. I think in the long term so would most people.
>So first and foremost, I think we should decide what CSS should really
>be. And then cull the set of features to optimize for that behavior.
I think CSS is fine the way it is right now, with layout and document 
markup combined. I donít see the need for creating yet another language 
when one can fit all.

Given this (or given a situation where those two would be separated, if 
you wish), what are your actual suggestions for improving the situation, 
instead of making semi-philosophical remarks which donít propose 
anything concrete? I believe Ian asked for that a few messages ago. 
Because right now I still only see some complaints about the current 
situation but no real grounds which convince me that it canít be solved 
with CSS, and more importantly, no real proposals which can give me an 
impression of what the better thing is that you have in mind.

I also miss the pragmatic view, which is that we have what we have right 
now, and using that would be better and easier to the existing user, and 
improve the changes of UA support.

So, please, give me something concrete :).

Received on Monday, 4 July 2005 11:17:10 UTC

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