W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > October 2004

Re: Box model: min-margin and max-margin, max-padding and min-padding

From: Andrew Fedoniouk <news@terrainformatica.com>
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 00:12:04 -0700
Message-ID: <000e01c4a918$49ce42a0$0201a8c0@ATHLON>
To: "Boris Zbarsky" <bzbarsky@MIT.EDU>
Cc: "www style" <www-style@w3.org>

| > As per CSS [1] "display:table-cell" forces change of underlying DOM - UA
| > *must* create table and row elements.
|
| No, that's not true.
|
| The UA must create table and table-row _boxes_.  These are purely display
| objects and are not attached to any DOM nodes.

Thanks, Boris!

So the following shall clearly say 'boxes' instead of  'objects'.
  1.. "If the parent P of a 'table-cell' element T is not a 'table-row', an
object corresponding to a 'table-row' will be generated between P and T.
This object will span all consecutive 'table-cell' siblings (in the document
tree) of T. " (http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/tables.html#value-def-table-cell)
Formally speaking elements are objects and boxes can be also objects.

Too fuzzy and too many exceptions in the spec about these table-*  to expect
robust implementations "an mass".
And again not so much demand. No?

===== following can be safely skipped from reading ====

OK, what is the scope and goals of CSS in general ?
To follow all possible visual and behavioural constructions which you can do
in HTML? Or in XUL?
To build what? In XHTML we've got <NL> element so we are going to add
display:collapsible-item or something else? What is at the end of tunnel? I
hope that we are focused on result but not on the process itself...

What does word Style in CSS mean?  Where are its margins?
Style as an entity became a long flat rack for strange mix of attributes
taken from different areas: screen representation, speech, animation,
publishing, user interaction. I expect even smell will go somewhere there as
a special set of attributes and values.

AFAIR, in ergonomics, 16 attributes/parameters of object is a max number
that human can operate with comfort. For whom we are creating CSS? Who will
write these styles?
On some HTML conference months ago one guy told me that it takes two weeks
to study HTML and two years to get an idea of CSS in full. Not bad, huh? ...
I can see "Mr. X - Doctor of CSS Science."

Beg my pardon for too many questions but only few answers (if any at all)...

Andrew Fedoniouk.
http://terrainformatica.com



----- Original Message -----
From: "Boris Zbarsky" <bzbarsky@MIT.EDU>


| Andrew Fedoniouk wrote:
| > Sorry, Boris I was not clear enough.
| >
| > Example:
| > Let's say we have standalone paragraph with style
| >
| > <body>
| > <p style="display:table-cell">
| > </body>
| >
| > As per CSS [1] "display:table-cell" forces change of underlying DOM - UA
| > *must* create table and row elements.
|
| No, that's not true.
|
| The UA must create table and table-row _boxes_.  These are purely display
| objects and are not attached to any DOM nodes.
|
|
| > Example: for the HTML above shall following style selector be in effect
for
| > the paragraph?
| >
| > body > p { color:red }
|
| Absolutely, since the DOM is completely unaltered.  The parent of the <p>
node
| is still the <body>.  There are four boxes around (block, table,
table-row,
| table-cell), of which only two are associated with a DOM node.
|
| > (p does not have body as a direct parent anymore, right?)
|
| Sure it does.
|
| > body > p { display:block; }
| > body > p:hover { display:table-cell; }
|
| That's fine.
|
| > Shall UA clear remnants of anonymous cell application (table and row
| > elements) when mouse will left such paragraph?
|
| Yes.  (Mozilla gets this wrong currently, but it's on the "to fix" list.)
|
| > And again: after switch into 'hover' state first rule will not be valid
for
| > the P anymore.
|
| That's not true.  Again, the DOM is not changed.
|
| -Boris
|
Received on Sunday, 3 October 2004 07:12:55 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Monday, 27 April 2009 13:54:34 GMT