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Re: [CSS] Rules for parsing and compatibility

From: Ernest Cline <ernestcline@mindspring.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 00:23:20 -0500
Message-ID: <410-2200415252320621@mindspring.com>
To: "Ian Hickson" <ian@hixie.ch>
Cc: www-style@w3.org




> [Original Message]
> From: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
> To: Ernest Cline <ernestcline@mindspring.com>
> Cc: <www-style@w3.org>
> Date: 1/1/2004 8:23:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [CSS] Rules for parsing and compatibility
>
> On Thu, 1 Jan 2004, Ernest Cline wrote:
> >
> > Here's one using CSS3 Text
> >
> > blockquote {
> >   text-indent:-0.6em
> > }
> > @property text-hanging {
> >   blockquote {
> >     text-hanging:start;
> >     text-indent:0;
> >   }
> > }
>
> 'text-hanging' was removed from CSS3 for exactly this reason.
>
> Your example would be:
>
>    blockquote {
>      text-indent: 0;
>      text-indent: 0.6em hanging;
>    }
>
> ...unless I've misunderstood something. (Which is quite possible, I'm the
> first to admit that the CSS3 Text module confuses me.)

Excuse me I misnamed the property, (I'm not aware of a UA that
implements it yet and its not an effect I want so I went with the wrong name
for some reason. It is 'hanging-punctuation' and not 'text-hanging' I meant
to use, and 'hanging-punctuation is clearly in CSS3 Text

http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-css3-text-20030514/#hanging-punctuation-prop

> > @property quotes{
> >   * {quotes: "\201C" "\201D" "\2018" "\2019" }
> >   q .qm {display: none}
> >   q:before { content: open-quote }
> >   q:after { content: close-quote }
> > }
> >
> > <q><span class="qm">&8220;</span>The quote mark is
> > a curious thing.<span class="qm">&8221;</span></q>
>
> Such a document is invalid per HTML, since "Authors should not put
> quotation marks at the beginning and end of the content of a Q element".
> Lynx, for example, or Opera in user mode, or handheld Opera in SSR mode,
> would correctly render:
>
>    ""The quote mark is a curious thing.""
>
> So this is definitely just a bug workaround IMHO.

Well, I can improve my CSS so that it would also render correctly in those
browsers but that isn't the point is it, as it is a workaround for an HTML
bug.

> Any other use cases? :-)

'text-kashida-spacing' looks like a possible choice so that a manual
attempt at providing kashida can be hidden in favor the system's ability
to do so, but I don't understand kashida very well, so I don't even know
if that would make sense.

If an author wishes to have a marquee effect even when the text does
overflow the box, but does not wish a scrolling mechanism provided
in such a case if the marquee effect is not supported by the UA
under the current draft @property would be needed, but that probably
just points out a problem with the interaction between overflow and the
marquee properties in the CSS3 Box WD.

Choosing to use a different background image depending upon
whether the 'background-spacing' property is supported is a
clear use case from CSS3 Background.

From CSS3 Lists, if an author wishes to provide different styling
information to the ::marker pseudo-element based on whether
a particular 'list-style-type' is supported or not, seems to be an
obvious candidate for using @property.

From CSS3 UI, the choice of which keys get assigned to which
elements is a good use case.

#a {key-equivalent: lalt-f1}
#b {key-equivalent:ralt-f1}
@property key-equivalent undo {
#a {key-equivalent: alt-f1}
#b {key-equivalent: undo}
}

(i,e, whether or not ralt-f1 is assigned to #a or #b is dependent upon
whether the UA has an undo key or not.)

> > However as the new CSS 3 properties become deployed there is more
> > opportunity for simulation, and more chances that even if simulation is
> > not desired, that the desired values of some properties may vary
> > depending upon what other properties and values are available.
>
> If properties are so unnecessary as to be replaceable by "simulations", I
> think there is a strong argument for not including such properties in the
> first place.

The simulations may not be as flexible as the new stuff, or allow for as
nice
control.  In the case of 'hanging-punctuation' the simulation via
text-indent
requires that the author guess how much space will be needed.  In the
example I gave earlier in this thread for the proposed @selector until
you mentioned how it could be substituted for with doubled ID selectors,
the simulation required using a green double border instead of the
red and green double border that ::outside makes possible.  In both cases,
the simulation wasn't as good as using the CSS feature itself when
available.
Received on Friday, 2 January 2004 00:23:24 GMT

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