W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > September 2003

Re: Scrollbar Code

From: Arthur Wiebe <webmaster@awiebe.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:17:30 -0400
Message-ID: <3F637B5A.9050505@awiebe.com>
To: www-style@w3.org

Ernest Cline wrote:

>>From: Arthur Wiebe <webmaster@awiebe.com>
>>
>>Ernest Cline wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>>From: Arthur Wiebe <webmaster@awiebe.com>
>>>>
>>>>I really wouldn't mind that much if styling the scrollbars is
>>>>        
>>>>
>restricted 
>  
>
>>>>to select, textarea, etc. but as long as it is excluding body. For me, 
>>>>the body element scrollbars are virtually part of the chrome.
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>I have to disagree with this.  If CSS for scrollbars exists, it should be
>>>able to be applied to any element for which the overflow property
>>>can be specified, and that includes the root element.
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Well in that case CSS for scrollbars shouldn't exist at all. The only 
>>good reason I can think of for have styled scrollbars is making the 
>>scrollbar match with your web site. I really don't think that's a good 
>>enough reason to mess up my scrollbars when I'm visiting a web page.
>>    
>>
>
>Obviously we disagree over whether the root element's scrollbars
>(if any) should be considered part of the page's UI or the user agent's UI.
>I think the former, and you think the latter.  However, a good user agent
>should make it easy for the user to decide which the user agent should
>let control over the root element's scrollbars be given to the web page
>or not. There clearly is a demand for the ability to control the scrollbars.
>It should be provided someplace and it should include the scrollbars
>of the root element, since whether scrolling even occurs for the root
>element is already something that a page author can affect thru CSS.
>
>Therefore the question to me is NOT: "Should a page author be able
>to control the appearance of the scrollbars of the root element?"  That
>question has to my mind already been decided by the marketplace,
>and the answer is yes.  If W3C tries to say, no you shouldn't do that,
>so we won't release a standard for how it should be done, then W3C
>will be a step closer to seeing its web standards ignored even more
>than they already are.
>
>The real questions ARE: "Is CSS the best mechanism for controlling
>the appearance of scrollbars?" and "If so, how should CSS do it?"
>The answers to this need not follow Microsoft's in-house  methods
>and given their OS specificity, as mentioned by a previous poster
>in this thread, probably shouldn't follow them.
>
>
>
>  
>
I have a complete change of mind now. I'm no longer against CSS for 
Scrollbars, and I agree we should not go by Microsofts methods.
So the biggest thing is changing the color. I believe that if you were 
able to use your own images for the scrollbars that might be a bit to 
much. But I may also be wrong again.
Some like scrollbar-color: #808080; would work except I see only one 
problem. User agents that use images for scrollbars or should I says 
OSs' that use images for scrollbars would have to make a seperate group 
of images for each color for the scrollbars. This would be something 
hard to implement.
<Arthur/>
Received on Saturday, 13 September 2003 16:17:34 GMT

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