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Re: Scrollbar Code

From: Brandon L. Pisani <giricredwolf@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 00:53:22 -0400
To: "W3C CSS List" <www-style@w3.org>
Message-ID: <Law12-OE18PyjyNxzzB00002b8d@hotmail.com>

Snippets coming...

----- Original Message ----- 
<Snippet>

> > >>
> > >>I really wouldn't mind that much if styling the scrollbars is
> restricted
> > >>to select, textarea, etc. but as long as it is excluding body. For me,
> > >>the body element scrollbars are virtually part of the chrome.
> > >
> > >I have to disagree with this.  If CSS for scrollbars exists, it should
be
> > >able to be applied to any element for which the overflow property
> > >can be specified, and that includes the root element.
> > >
> > Well in that case CSS for scrollbars shouldn't exist at all. The only
> > good reason I can think of for have styled scrollbars is making the
> > scrollbar match with your web site. I really don't think that's a good
> > enough reason to mess up my scrollbars when I'm visiting a web page.
>

</snippet>

First off, JavaScript was the first to do this, so it's already been
implemented somewhere.  Since the new HTML 4.01 Strict doesn't allow for
embedded JavaScript like the older ones, it's left up to CSS to take up the
slack for somethings.  I'm not saying it hasn't done this, but it might be
able to do more.  I am a newbie and an amateur at this.  I'm just picking
this up as I go along.

<snippet>

There clearly is a demand for the ability to control the scrollbars.
> It should be provided someplace and it should include the scrollbars
> of the root element, since whether scrolling even occurs for the root
> element is already something that a page author can affect thru CSS.

</snippet>

As stated before, JavaScript already started the "fad" (though, I suspect
it's not just a fad).  There are at least three sites I use that use the
code I pasted earlier.  One is my friend's site (where I got the code), one
is a site is a publishing company, and the other is a game that I play that
is completely done through HTML (something like neopets).  The second used
to use JS, but switched to the CSS styling because it's neater.  Granted,
only one of the Big Two supports it, they still use it.


> Therefore the question to me is NOT: "Should a page author be able
> to control the appearance of the scrollbars of the root element?"  That
> question has to my mind already been decided by the marketplace,
> and the answer is yes.  If W3C tries to say, no you shouldn't do that,
> so we won't release a standard for how it should be done, then W3C
> will be a step closer to seeing its web standards ignored even more
> than they already are.
>
> The real questions ARE: "Is CSS the best mechanism for controlling
> the appearance of scrollbars?" and "If so, how should CSS do it?"
> The answers to this need not follow Microsoft's in-house  methods
> and given their OS specificity, as mentioned by a previous poster
> in this thread, probably shouldn't follow them.
>

I think that it should be implemented as a standard.  Most of the pages I've
seen it used on have subjects more like games or personal pages.  Most
corporate subject pages don't use this code and probably wouldn't given the
choice.  I feel it adds to the artistic expression that someone can display
through their browser.  I've even seen instructions on web sites for
implementing images in place of color for use in scroll bars.  Now, that I
think can be a worse idea than the colors, but it could work.

Just my thoughts and opinions, humble or no.

Brandon Pisani
Received on Saturday, 13 September 2003 00:58:39 GMT

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