W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > September 2003

Re: Scrollbar Code

From: Ernest Cline <ernestcline@mindspring.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 22:43:11 -0400
Message-ID: <410-22003961324311875@mindspring.com>
To: "W3C CSS List" <www-style@w3.org>

> From: Arthur Wiebe <webmaster@awiebe.com>
>
> Ernest Cline wrote:
>
> >>From: Arthur Wiebe <webmaster@awiebe.com>
> >>
> >>I really wouldn't mind that much if styling the scrollbars is
restricted 
> >>to select, textarea, etc. but as long as it is excluding body. For me, 
> >>the body element scrollbars are virtually part of the chrome.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >I have to disagree with this.  If CSS for scrollbars exists, it should be
> >able to be applied to any element for which the overflow property
> >can be specified, and that includes the root element.
> >  
> >
> Well in that case CSS for scrollbars shouldn't exist at all. The only 
> good reason I can think of for have styled scrollbars is making the 
> scrollbar match with your web site. I really don't think that's a good 
> enough reason to mess up my scrollbars when I'm visiting a web page.

Obviously we disagree over whether the root element's scrollbars
(if any) should be considered part of the page's UI or the user agent's UI.
I think the former, and you think the latter.  However, a good user agent
should make it easy for the user to decide which the user agent should
let control over the root element's scrollbars be given to the web page
or not. There clearly is a demand for the ability to control the scrollbars.
It should be provided someplace and it should include the scrollbars
of the root element, since whether scrolling even occurs for the root
element is already something that a page author can affect thru CSS.

Therefore the question to me is NOT: "Should a page author be able
to control the appearance of the scrollbars of the root element?"  That
question has to my mind already been decided by the marketplace,
and the answer is yes.  If W3C tries to say, no you shouldn't do that,
so we won't release a standard for how it should be done, then W3C
will be a step closer to seeing its web standards ignored even more
than they already are.

The real questions ARE: "Is CSS the best mechanism for controlling
the appearance of scrollbars?" and "If so, how should CSS do it?"
The answers to this need not follow Microsoft's in-house  methods
and given their OS specificity, as mentioned by a previous poster
in this thread, probably shouldn't follow them.
Received on Friday, 12 September 2003 22:43:04 GMT

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