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Réf. : Re: list-style-position

From: <leslie.brown@evidian.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:10:44 +0200
To: www-style@w3.org
Message-ID: <OFA2CA8B6C.23A7C81D-ONC1256D9F.0032825F@evcl.evidian.com>


I was having problems imagining why we would want to put floats in a list
and what the "natural" behaviour would be.

Maybe the following will help clarify what seem to be two distinct needs:

Case 1: float something corresponding to one element
        of the list next to that element

Case 2: float something  corresponding to the list as
        a whole, starting at one specific element

So with the picture (say) next to element 2 (say),
we'd want something like.

Case 1R : picture at right:

  1   Some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text
      some text some text some

  2   Some text some text some XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
      text some text some text XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
      text some text some text XX  PICTURE  XX
      some text some text some XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
      text some text some text XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
      some text some text some
      text some text some text some text some
      some text some text some some text

  3   Some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text
      some text some text some

  4   Some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text
      some text some text some


Case 2R : picture at right:

  1   Some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text
      some text some text some

  2   Some text some text some XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
      text some text some text XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
      text some text some text XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
      text some text some text XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
      text some text some text XX  PICTURE  XX
      some text some           XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
                               XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
  3   Some text some text some XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
      text some text some text XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
      text some text some text XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
      text some text some text XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
      some text some text some
      text some text some text some text some
      some text some text some some text

  4   Some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text
      some text some text some


So far, so good (apart from the obvious worry
about what happens in case 1 when the picture
is taller than the rest of the list element).

But it's less obvious what's natural if
the picture is on the left. My intuitive
feeling is that the two cases would differ
more visibly:


Case 1L : picture at left, "belongs" to list element

  1   Some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text
      some text some text some

  2   XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  Some text some text some
      XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  text some text some
      XX  PICTURE  XX  text some text some text
      XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  some text some text
      XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  text some text some text
      XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  text some text some text
                       text some  some text
      some text some text some  some text
      text some text some text some text some
      some text some text some

  3   Some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text
      some text some text some

  4   Some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text
      some text some text some


Case 2L : picture at left, belongs to list

I *suspect* that this is what's wanted...

  1   Some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text
      some text some text some

  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  2  Some text some text some
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     text some text some text
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     text some text some text
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     text some text some text
  XX  PICTURE  XX     text some text some text
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     some text some
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  3  Some text some text some
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     text some text some text
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     text some text some text
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     text some text some text
                      some text some text some
      text some text some text some text some
      some text some text some some text

  4   Some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text
      some text some text some

(Note that the picture left-aligns with the list markers
and not the margin).


And you could even combine cases 1L and 2L...

  1   Some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text
      some text some text some

  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  2  XXXXXXXXX  Some text some
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX  text some text
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX  text some text
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX  text some text
  XX  PICTURE  XX     XXXXXXXXX  text some text
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX                some text some
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     some text some text some
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     some text some
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  3  Some text some text some
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     some text some text some
                      some text some text some
      text some text some text some text some
      some text some text some some text

  4   Some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text
      some text some text some


In practice all this would be rather tricky, as we
don't know what window width, font sizes, (etc)
are available for the the user rendering......
(I'm using "picture" for "float" and "text block"
for "list element" to ease visualisation...).


- What if the picture ends up taller than the
  text block in case 1R?

- Especially if the next text block also
  has a case 1R picture?

- What if the same text block has a case 1R picture
  AND a case 2R picture?

- What if a case 2R picture and a case 1L picture need
  to be rendered at the same vertical position and
  taken together they exceed the available width?

- What if a case 1L picture hangs below a case 2L
  picture?...
  Do we use the space marked by "?". By "!"?

  1   Some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text some
      text some text some text some text
      some text some text some

  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  2  XXXXXXXXX  Some text some
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX  text some text
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX  text some text
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX  text some text
  XX  PICTURE  XX     XXXXXXXXX  text some text
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX                some text some
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     some text some
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  3  XXXXXXXXX  Some text some
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX  some text some
  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX  some text some
                      XXXXXXXXX  some text some
      ???????????!!!  XXXXXXXXX  some text some
      ???????????!!!  XXXXXXXXX  some some text
      ???????????!!!             some text some
      text some text some text some text
      some text some text some


Bon courage...

Les Brown
Received on Friday, 12 September 2003 06:10:49 GMT

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