W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > September 2003

Re: list-style-position

From: <staffan.mahlen@comhem.se>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:43:22 +0200
To: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
Cc: "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>
Message-ID: <3F61A34A.16203.342BF5@localhost>

On 11 Sep 2003 at 14:10, Ian Hickson wrote:

> > Is it a good thing to define the ::marker box based on 'inline-block'
> > and if so why?
> 
> The type used must take part in the inline box model, which basically
> means 'inline', 'inline-block', or 'inline-table'. 'width' does not apply
> to 'inline' boxes, so that's out, and 'inline-table' involves table
> layout, which is excessive. That leaves 'inline-block'.
> 
Ah, but why is the marker not seen as a box in its own right rather 
than a previously defined one? To my mind the marker does have 
special requirements that make none of the other boxes fit perfectly. 
Why was the CSS2 display value 'marker' discarded?

> The overflow comment stands on its own -- the 'overflow' property does not
> apply, and the overflow on a marker box is always visible.
This could perhaps be one example of why the marker should be a new 
type of box.

> > Would having a restriction on when the value 'outside' is actually
> > applicable help with reducing and/or help debugging the troublesome
> > conflicts?
> 
> Which troublesome conflicts? I think the current spec is pretty
> well-defined for those cases, isn't it?
I was probably confusing the implementations of the rec with the text 
of the rec here. I was referring to the float issues as well as the 
"hidden markers" issues that occur in UAs. The idea being that 
avoiding as many as possible of the cases where markers "dissappear" 
would be helpful to the user. 

> > Why position the ::marker box horizontally based on the position of
> > the line or content edge rather than the border edge of the principal
> > box?
> 
> So that it gets moved by floats.
> 
> > Does this in some way help with float issues and would positioning with
> > regards to border edge reduce the likelyhood of float conflicts?
> 
> No, it would increase them.
But wouldn't the current way the marker is positioned mean that the 
marker always gets in conflict with the float since it is normally 
occupying the same space in the following example (assuming default 
style sheet as per CSS2)? 

CSS:
img {float: left}
HTML:
<ol>
	<li>
		<img src="some_img.png" /> Some text
	</li>
</ol>

An example where the float occurs previously in the document seems to 
generate similar results, but by making the marker occur outside the 
border-edge at least the floats nested into the principal box 
dissappears as an issue (or rather are displayed between the line and 
the marker, which seems more correct)? 

This would also stop markers from overwriting borders of the 
principal box without requiring explicit margin. It may also be more 
clear that line-affecting properties do not have any effect on the 
marker positioning (i believe there are issues in current 
implementations with at least text-align and text-indent).

Thanks for the answers,
 /Staffan
Received on Friday, 12 September 2003 04:43:28 GMT

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