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Re: Shelby's Final Position Paper on XBL

From: Herr Christian Wolfgang Hujer <Christian.Hujer@itcqis.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:33:05 +0100
To: Jim Dabell <jim-www-style@jimdabell.com>, www-style@w3.org
Message-Id: <200301070333.05823.Christian.Hujer@itcqis.com>

Hello Jim, dear list members,

Am Montag, 6. Januar 2003 17:43 schrieb Jim Dabell:
> On Monday 06 January 2003 4:22 pm, Herr Christian Wolfgang Hujer wrote:
> > Presentation is presenting content to an intelligent user, which usually
> > is a human end user only, but which also might be cats, dogs, monkeys,
> > aliens etc..
>
> I think a slightly better way of putting it is:
>
> Presentation is the buffer between document encoding and document
> consumption.
Wow. This definition of presentation is imho really great.
I consider search engine crawlers being a MOM, not a POP application.

I also want to avoid the term encoding because it reminds me of charsets and 
char encodings like iso-8859-1, unicode, utf-8 etc..
I replace encoding with coding, which of course still is far from perfect 
(someone knows a more appropriate term?) but doesn't remind me of 
encodings...

So may I suggest an intermix:
Presentation is the buffer between document coding and document consumption of 
the end user.

> Behaviour is a special case because it involves interaction by the user,
> and can conceivably alter the original encoding.
Hmm. DOM point of view vs. XBL point of view.
I am undecided.

Is an animation created using CSS behaviour behaviour? Is there behaviour that 
meets the term "somewhat interactive" but does not involve "interaction by 
the user"? Is there an attribute like "passively interactive"?

> I consider semantics to be a property of the document encoding.
>
> Therefore, I don't consider behaviour to be able to change semantics unless
> it changes the original encoding of the document (which rules out both CSS
> and XBL, I believe).
I agree. Behaviour changes style but not semantics in the first place. But 
because of my little experience with behaviour I don't want to induce 
behaviour not changing semantics at all.

So where is behaviour? Is it next to style, is it above style, is it below 
style?
Is it next to semantics?
(Being on the same layer doesn't need to imply being able to change).

> Is this discussion useful, or should we all collectively knock this thread
> on the head?
Well, I think the thread evolves to a very fertile discussion.

Bye
-- 
ITCQIS GmbH
Christian Wolfgang Hujer
Geschäftsführender Gesellschafter
Telefon: +49  (0)89  27 37 04 37
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Received on Monday, 6 January 2003 21:33:53 GMT

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