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Re: XBL is (mostly) W3C redundant, and CSS is wrong W3C layer for semantic behavior *markup*

From: David Hyatt <hyatt@apple.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 17:20:33 -0800
Cc: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, www-style@w3.org
To: Shelby Moore <shelby@coolpage.com>
Message-Id: <0D8311BF-2115-11D7-9ACF-00039382AC6C@apple.com>

 From my perspective there has been a lot of debate over whether CSS is 
the wrong layer to use for attaching XBL bindings (both sides seem to 
just be butting heads unproductively having stated their points), but 
there seems to have been virtually no debate regarding whether or not 
XBL is a redundant technology.  I'm more interested in exploring this 
issue.  Since I don't know XSLT very well.  I'm genuinely curious if it 
is capable of solving the problems that led me to implement XBL in 
Mozilla in the first place.

dave
(hyatt@apple.com)

On Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 05:11 PM, Shelby Moore wrote:

>
> At 12:58 AM 1/6/2003 +0000, Ian Hickson wrote:
>
> [...]
> Blah, blah
>
> Do any one (other than the "vested XBL supporters") want me to respond 
> to
> Ian's summary below point-by-point??
>
> Because I feel my previous points already refute his summary and can 
> stand
> on their own.
>
> I am personally tired of writing the same points over and over.  I feel
> (perhaps incorrectly) Ian's summary below is just a challenge to draw 
> me
> into another non-productive verbosity debate.
>
> -Shelby Moore
>
>
>> For the record, here is a summary of my response to your original
>> post, taking into account all your comments so far:
>>
>> 1. XBL is not W3C redundant, because there is no other spec that can
>>   do what it can:
>>
>>   * Bind event handlers and styles to an element from the style
>>     layer.
>>
>>   * Bind event handlers and styles to an element without affecting
>>     the original DOM.
>>
>>   * Allow dynamic changes to the DOM to be reflected by the binding
>>     dynamically.
>>
>>   * Allow individual elements to have bindings changed dynamically.
>>
>>   * Allow multiple bindings to be added to the same element
>>     simultaneously.
>>
>>   * Allow the user to individually override bindings without
>>     completely overriding the author bindings.
>>
>>   * Allow new functions to be defined in the scope of the bindings
>>     without _any_ pollution of the document namespace.
>>
>>   * Bind stylesheets to subtrees of the document without affecting
>>     any other elements.
>>
>> 2. CSS is the right layer at which to introduce XBL, because XBL
>>   addresses exactly the same problem as CSS -- presentation and
>>   behaviour. XBL affects semantics in just the same was as CSS.
>>
>> 3. XBL doesn't actually depend on any other W3C technology, it is
>>   designed to be independent of the scripting, DOM, and styling
>>   languages used. However, it can integrate tightly with W3C
>>   technologies, making it highly suitable in a W3C context.
>
Received on Sunday, 5 January 2003 20:21:30 GMT

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