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Re: XBL is (mostly) W3C redundant, and CSS is wrong W3C layer for semantic behavior *markup*

From: Shelby Moore <shelby@coolpage.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:02:33 -0600
Message-Id: <4.1.20030102145639.018e1a60(null)>
To: John Lewis <lewi0371@mrs.umn.edu>
Cc: www-style@w3.org


This discussion is going to have to end for me real soon.  I've got other
work (and personal life) to attend to.

Thus my replies will become less exact and more generalizations in the
interest of making my point and not arguing the details.


At 06:38 AM 1/2/2003 -0600, John Lewis wrote:
>
>Shelby wrote on Wednesday, January 1, 2003 at 4:36:36 PM:
>
>> Note the *KEY* point that class selector is not __semantic___
>> markup.
>
>Selectors aren't markup at all. After this sentence, I honestly
>understood very little of your reply. I'll reply to what I do
>understand.


Class selectors are embedded in markup.


>
>> The class selector is a way to markup "style sheets" and for
>> "general purpose processing by UA".
>
>No, the class selector, a part of CSS, is a way to select HTML
>elements with certain classes.


Agreed, and this is consistent with what I wrote.


> The class attribute, a part of HTML, is
>a way to mark up *text* for "style sheets" and "general purpose
>processing."


You are playing with the fuzzy and mbiguous nature of english language.  I
am just saying basically that class selectors is a mechanism for
non-semanticallly associating things with the markup.  The ___selection___
by class does not consider the semantics of the elements of markup.


> So, class attributes are markup, and class selectors are
>a way of selecting markup, in CSS, for styling purposes. Thus class
>selectors are much like type selectors, which consist of an element
>name (e.g., p).


That is essentially the same as what I had written.


>
>> According to HTML 4.01 spec quoted, those are both layers that are
>> below (and separable, e.g. orthogonal) to semantic markup layer. If
>> you make the semantic binding combined with the class selector
>> layer, then you have merged semantic layer with a layer that it
>> supposed to be orthogonal and separable from semantics.
>
>I don't know what the "semantic markup layer" is. Searching the full
>text of the HTML 4.01 spec only found "player".

Look at Ian's chart previously in this thread.  The "Semantics" is the
semantic markup layer.

-Shelby
Received on Thursday, 2 January 2003 16:01:30 GMT

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