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Fwd: Re: X11 Colors (was Last call comments on CSS3 module: color)

From: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:49:16 +0200
Message-ID: <19450508156.20020603134916@w3.org>
To: www-style@w3.org
This is a forwarded message
From: Tobias Reif <tobiasreif@pinkjuice.com>
To: www-svg@w3.org
Date: Thursday, May 30, 2002, 9:14:39 PM
Subject: X11 Colors (was Last call comments on CSS3 module: color)

===8<==============Original message text===============

Chris Lilley wrote:

>>>It remains to be shown, though, that any color naming syntax has any
>>>benefit over entity references

All the benefits I listed in my post [1], without requiring the designer 
to setup such a system himself.

> TR> You mean the designer would map his own keywords to RGB values via XML entities?
> Yes.
> TR> If that's what you mean, I really don't like it.
> TR> I want to have the flexibility of RGB (which is there right now), plus 
> TR> the convenience and expressiveness of nice human language descriptions 
> TR> (sentences or keywords); the latter mechanism should be convenient, and 
> TR> not require me to declare entities first.
> Why is that inconvenient?

Because people have to declare all the entities before using them. Since 
this involves fiddling with RGB triplets, or color pickers, I can't see 
why people would set up lists of entities; they could simply stick with 
the picker. I do not want to declare long lists of entities each time I 
want to use keywords. I use keyworks for convenience: I don't have to 
fiddle with the RGB values, and I don't have to fire up a tool with a 
color picker.
But I have to memorize or look up tables; with a color naming system 
like the one you once recommended [2], I would only have to memorize 
around 20 keywords, declare no entities, start up nothing than my text 
editor, and get a nice range of colors, readable, intuitive, convenient.

> Its the standard XML mechanism for doing
> such a thing.

That doesn't make it convenient.

I don't want to be required to create this system myself
to be able to enjoy the advantages I listed in the other post [1], and 
the ones you defended in the thread starting with [2].
Do you want to require non-technical designers to
fiddle with RGB values in order to be able to use color keywords of a CNS?
Personally, I am able to do that; but most of the time,
I either use a color picker, or I use color keywords;
the latter mostly when I'm in a text editor, which is most of the time.
Why would I do both at once?
(which is what people would do when declaring the entities)

Instead, I want to have that system provided by CSS,
and simply use it.


[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2002May/0093.html

[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/1996Feb/0006.html


===8<===========End of original message text===========

Forwarding this since it only got posted to www-svg not www-style, and
is a nicely articulated objection to my suggestion ;-)

Best regards,
 Chris                            mailto:chris@w3.org

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