W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > December 2002

Re: XBL is (mostly) W3C redundant, and CSS is wrong W3C layer for semantic behavior *markup*

From: Shelby Moore <shelby@coolpage.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 18:36:49 -0600
Message-Id: <4.1.20021227182909.018a33e0(null)>
To: "L. David Baron" <dbaron@fas.harvard.edu>
Cc: www-style@w3.org

At 07:26 PM 12/27/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>On Friday 2002-12-27 18:13 -0600, Shelby Moore wrote:
>> For me, I'd much rather having my work be transportable.  What is the
>> benefit of having it not be transportable?
>
>Are you saying that you want the results of the transformation to be
>transportable over the network (e.g., as markup)?


Obviously you can make the source document available as well, for agents
that understand XSLT.

It just means you aren't tied to a particular UA implementation.

Obviously if everyone starts writing XSLT, then major browsers will support
it.  In the meantime, you have a server-side solution that works on 99%
instead of 1%.


>The benefit of preventing this from happening


You can't prevent it.  XSLT exists.  So does PHP, SSI, and many other
server-side transformations.


> is that it enforces the
>separation of presentation from semantics, which is one of the main
>goals of CSS.


That goal is more comprised by XBL than by XSLT.  Refer to my previous
posts for reasons.


>  There are many ways something such as an XForms select
>element [1] might be presented, as shown in the figure [1].  These
>presentations can be obtained by a transformation to other markup.
>However, doing that transformation before sending the document over the
>network would destroy the ability for the user to change which
>presentation is used.


Yes of course, those users would want a UA which understands XSLT (or XBL).
 I'd say there is much better chance that UAs will support XSLT than XBL.
One is a W3C standard with many general uses (one is XML style).  The other
is not.


>  The user might want to change the presentation to
>be compatible with the look and feel of the user's operating environment
>or to be easier to use with the type of pointing or selecting device
>being used.  Transporting the result of the transformation prevents this
>from happening.

Which is one reason you do not want to merge the semantic layer and CSS and
DOM, as XBL does.

-Shelby Moore
Received on Sunday, 29 December 2002 00:40:52 GMT

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