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Re: css3-lists: Coptic and Ionic Greek

From: Christos Cheretakis <xalkina@otenet.gr>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:06:01 +0200
Message-ID: <3DFF0519.4090307@otenet.gr>
To: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
CC: Web Style Sheets W3C Mailing List <www-style@w3.org>

Ian Hickson wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Christos Cheretakis wrote:
> 
>>
>>Well, we don't really use it for long lists!!! Decimal would be 
>>preferrable for those cases!
> 
> 
> Given the mess here, would you be particularly opposed to making the
> *-modern-greek numbering styles be only defined in the range 1..89?
> 
> That would remove the space problem rather neatly too.
> 

   Yes, and no. When you need a long list of numbers, that would 
probably include any of the not-existing, or ambiguous positions, you'd 
use decimal form instead. But the other representations still exist and 
*are* used in their alphabetic form when referring to them. The number 
of the beast would be "chi xi sigma tau'" in modern greek in any way. 
So, if you want to make a note on that, I'd rather you said "it is 
defined, but not used" for >= 90, than "is not defined".

> 
> Ok, I think I'll go with ancient-greek, lower-greek, upper-greek,
> lower-greek-alpha, upper-greek-alpha. If, once the spec reaches the end of
> the CR period, we find that implementations have used lower-greek instead
> of lower-alpha-greek, maybe we'll have to change the names to match.
> 

   If you get to CD before the end of February, (that I'm unfortunately 
joining the army), I'll probably be able to provide an implementation 
for Mozilla. I've been wanting to make my feet wet in its code for some 
time now. That would leave only one major beast to beat.

> 
>>>Is "numeral-sign" a (sometimes absent) suffix, or is it part of the
>>>number? If it is part of the number, what would be the typical suffix? (In
>>>decimal, the suffix is '.' because lists go '1.', '2.', '3.', ...)
>>
>>In the ancient greek style it is part of the number. In the modern 
>>styles, when used in a list's context like "alpha.", "beta.", etc., it 
>>would be dropped. Preferred suffix is ")", but ")." and "." are used as 
>>well.
> 
> 
> Ok, so for modern I won't mention numeral-sign, and I'll make the suffix
> ")".
> 

   Yes, and no, again. Dropping the ' in a list's context is actually a 
matter of style (in general, not a CSS style ;-). ancient-greek would 
most probably not be used in a list's context. Maybe for page numbering, 
when it comes to long sequences, but again, in particular contexts, like 
religious texts, or theatre parts. Ancient greeks counted in prose, they 
did not use list or bullets anyways...

   For modern-greek, when used in a list, you would drop the 
numeral-sign, because of the following characters, ie, something like this:
alpha) first list item
beta) second list item

   But, when used in generated content, ie, TOC, chapter title 
numbering, etc., the numeral-sign has to be there. For example,

Chapter ALPHA' - Title of chapter ..................... Page 12
Chapter BETA'  - Title of second chapter .............. Page 96

Appendix ALPHA' - Whatever

> 
> 
> Since my mail client (due to various reasons) treats everything as
> ISO-8859-1... :-)
> 

   And I noticed frink.w3.org converts everything to 8bit, so you 
couldn't get the codes from their quoted-printable representation either.

> 
>>>>the number of the beast would be:
>>>>ancient-greek: U+03C8 U+03BE U+03DB U+0374
>>>
>>>766? :-)
>>
>>Did I make a mistake, or is there another beast I'm not aware of?
> 
> 
> Mistake, according to the tables.
> 

   You're right!

> 
> 
>>I've also found a list of the tax service offices at
>>http://www.e-oikonomia.gr/ipiresies/doy/kodikoi_doy.htm . Some of them
>>are numbered after the algorithmic style, but the biggest number I've
>>seen is 23 (kappa-gamma).
> 
> 
> That page is unavailable for me. :-(
> 

   The problem being??? Network access? Fonts? If it's the latter, I can 
provide a screenshot.

	C/

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Received on Tuesday, 17 December 2002 06:26:56 GMT

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