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Re: CSS 2.1 WD and non-CSS presentational hints

From: Jan Roland Eriksson <jrexon@newsguy.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 19:38:38 +0200
To: www-style@w3.org
Cc: "fantasai" <fantasai@escape.com>
Message-ID: <u9cnmu80d8oh0b97qfltv84bg4v9fu5dpa@4ax.com>

On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:01:39 -0400, fantasai wrote:

>Coises wrote:
>> The presentation of <b> is specified using CSS... so it can't be a
>> "non-CSS presentational hint."

>Yes it can. The <b> by itself, without CSS rules...

After the fact that CSS2 revised the way on how to look at browser
behavior, the <B> element (or any renderable element for that matter)
_can_not_ be "without CSS rules" when presented in any user agent...

>...suggests (hints) "boldface". A <b> element should be boldface even
>in a non-CSS-enabled graphical browser such as NS 3.

Following CSS2 section "6.4 The cascade" there can not be such a thing
as a "non-CSS-enabled graphical browser"...

  "User agent: Conforming user agents must apply a default style
   sheet (or behave as if they did) prior to all other style sheets
   for a document.
   A user agent's default style sheet should present the elements
   of the document language in ways that satisfy general presentation
   expectations for the document language (e.g., for visual browsers,
   the EM element in HTML is presented using an italic font)."

(note especially that "or behave as if they did" part)

Following that...

...the <B> element content shall be presented as bold text by the ua
default CSS stylesheet that the browser possibly only "behaves as if it
has available", but in reality makes available in hard code.
It's still a default stylesheet, any way you look at it.

...in fact all browsers dating all way back to the origin of the www
have been compliant visavi that specific part of CSS2 section 6.4
(that includes NS3 of course, since it behaves as if it has a default
stylesheet that governs its default rendering)

>Therefore it is a non-CSS presentational hint.

Contemplate a bit over the current CSS2 spec again I'd say...

Jan Roland Eriksson .. <jrexon@newsguy.com>
Received on Tuesday, 27 August 2002 13:40:45 UTC

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