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Re: Proposal: list-item-color

From: Etan Wexler <ewexler@stickdog.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 23:33:07 -0500
To: Web style list <www-style@w3.org>
Message-Id: <20011002032607.3873315089E@server11.safepages.com>
Tantek Celik (imagine a cedilla) wrote:

> From: Bert Bos <Bert.Bos@sophia.inria.fr>
> Subject: Re: Proposal: list-item-color
> Date: Sat, Sep 29, 2001, 5:36 AM
>> Actually, the way CSS2 does it is by using generated text with a 
>> of 'marker'. Such a 'marker' will automatically replace the 
>> own marker, like so:
>>     li {display: list-style}  /* This is already default in HTML */
>>     /* Make an explicit counter for li, instead of the implicit 
one: */
>>     li:before {display: marker; counter-increment: li-no}
>>     ul li:before {content: counter(li-no, disc)}
>>     ol li:before {content: counter(li-no, decimal)}
>> This is more powerful than 'list-style-color' (a better name than
>> 'list-item-color' I think), but admittedly harder to write.
> Yes, I believe the example speaks for itself in this regard.  Not 
> harder to write, but harder to read as well.
>> ('Display: marker' is not supported by any browser so far, I 
> Nor should it be, in our opinion.

Should we anticipate changes in this area in CSS2.1?

> The ':before {display:marker}' method (IMHO - hack) for doing list 
> is seriously problematic both for implementers and for authors.
> It is poorly designed, and would have never exited "CR" had there 
been a CR
> period when CSS2 went to last call.

If it was such a bad idea and if objections appeared within the W3C, 
how did the draft make it to "Recommendation" status anyway?

> I believe that much better solutions are both desired and possible, 
and, as
> co-editor of the CSS3 List Module, I invite proposals (such as
> 'list-style-color') from the community to arrive at a better 
> Frankly, the CSS1 list properties were both much easier to 
implement, and to
> understand from an authoring perspective.  CSS2's list model went a 
bit off
> the theoretical deep end as it were.
> From: Bjoern Hoehrmann <derhoermi@gmx.net>
> Subject: Re: Proposal: list-item-color
> Date: Sat, Sep 29, 2001, 12:19 PM
>> Why didn't CSS Level 2 say, that list item markers are intended to 
>> just like that and one could simply specify
>>   li::before { color: red }
>> or whatever to style the marker?
> Yes, CSS2 could have said this.
> But this demonstrates one of the more serious flaws with using 
:before for
> list-markers, and that is, that it prevents the authoring of content 
> itself has :before content and also has a list number or marker.
> Essentially, forcing the author to use :before to style the list 
> robs the author of the ability to independently prefix their list 
items with
> generated content.
> A much better alternative would have been to assign a pseudo-element
> specifically to the list marker, e.g. :list-marker (or ::list-marker 
in CSS3
> pseudo-element syntax) which could be used to address the list 
marker and
> style it with color (or other properties as well, which would, for 
> remove the need for the 'marker-offset' property).  Every element 
that had
> "display:list-item" would automatically have a :list-marker 
> generated for it to be styled.  This is just an idea - not a formal
> proposal.  It is intended to generate discussion and brainstorming.
> Thanks,
> Tantek

Etan Wexler
Received on Monday, 1 October 2001 23:26:09 UTC

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