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RE: border="" was Re: transparency: active, transparency: inactiv e

From: Dave J Woolley <david.woolley@bts.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:34:24 +0100
Message-ID: <81E4A2BC03CED111845100104B62AFB50102A826@stagecoach.bts.co.uk>
To: "'www-style@w3.org'" <www-style@w3.org>
> From:	Manos Batsis [SMTP:m.batsis@bsnet.gr]
> 
> Sorry, I just woke up. I don't really get it :-)
> 
[DJW:]  
Based on what was discussed on the w3c-wai-ig@w3.org mailing
list, I think that Jonathon wants to be able to use HTML to
allow his pupils (clients in his jargon) who are adults with
reading ages of around 5 or less years, to become part of
the web by creating "web pages" by cut and paste techniques,
using symbols rather than text. 

He also wants them to be able to create those symbols. 

Furthermore, he wants to do it using current technoloyg
(although some of his objections to SVG may stem from not
knowing that SVG can embed bit-mapped images). 

These potential authors can't think in terms of images
always being on a rectangular tile, but rather in terms of
their having a boundary at the edge of the non-transparent
part, as though the shapes had been cut out with scissors.
As such, they expect only the visible part to be mouse
sensitive and don't expect the transparent part of something
at the top of the z-order to hide an opaque part of
something below - there is no transparent surround as far as
they are concerned. 

He can't use SVG paths directly, or use image maps, because
the level of abstraction is too high. Painting is seen as
natural, but working with shapes, is not. 

He's on a tight budget, so he is also trying to use scripted
HTML as an authoring tool, which I think explains the
concentration on clicking and dragging. This and the need of
absolute simplicity means he is unlikely to find suitable
tools that can infer an image map or vector representation
from painting actions. 

In trying to implement his tool he has discovered that the
de facto browser implementations of transparency are not of
the intuitive form he expects, so he is trying to get W3C to
standardise transparency in the way he expects, or at least
have a parameter than can be set to achieve that behaviour.
This list has been suggested because transparency and the
mechanism that causes the conflicts, overlapping positioned
elements, are both controlled using style sheets. 

WHen he is writing about borders, he is talking about the
natural concept of a border on an irregular shape, not the
formal, rectangular, definition in CSS. 

Personally, I think that HTML is inappropriate for the final
document, and SVG should be used instead, and that it is
taking HTML too far too try and use it for writing graphic
layout tools.  However, styles extend beyond HTML, so the
issues potentially apply to SVG etc., although, again, I
have reservations about using a scripted document language
as an authoring tool for that language.

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>  
Received on Thursday, 12 July 2001 13:35:07 GMT

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