W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > July 2001

RE: activel inks?

From: Manos Batsis <m.batsis@bsnet.gr>
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:39:17 +0300
Message-ID: <A35E2040C17F0C48B941B8F4D0DF122908E2C5@ermhs.Athens.BrokerSystems.gr>
To: "AMollah" <am@freephone.fsnet.co.uk>
Cc: <www-style@w3.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMollah [mailto:am@freephone.fsnet.co.uk]

>  I love the way it can halve html 
> file sizes though
> and I'm trying to get to grips with it for the future. As I gave up on
> Netscape 4x, I don't think I would be your man for N6 
> behaviours either!

Well the main reason I use CSS is the separation of content and
presentation, something that makes my everyday work easy and my data
Of course, way back then, I used to mainly think of the reduced file
sizes as my main motive.

> mean, Netscape 4x (and even 6 I think) is a browser that 
> hasn't adjusted to
> "hover". That doesn't mean that "hover" isn't a useful basic 

N6 supports :hover. It is a standards oriented browser.

> more heavy, because one more useful property would have 
> replaced another
> less useful one.

You don't really want to get there my friend :-)
Every defined CSS property has solid reasons to exist.
From 5.11.3:
"The :active pseudo-class applies while an element is being activated by
the user. For example, between the times the user presses the mouse
button and releases it. "
I find it important. Interaction and letting the user know about how it
goes is great. Ever wondered if you pressed on a link or not?

> Using BeCss  (I didn't know what it was - 
> but I think it is
> just a way to call external scripts if I understand it) for a 
> basic property
> like this seems to be bloat in itself. Isn't the whole point 
> about the power
> of css is that it reduces the need for scripts to do basic navigation
> actions like rollover links etc.. ?

It's more than that. For some time, people have been asking editors to
add some real weird stuff on the css specs. This and some other reasons,
led to BeCSS.
Through this mechanism, you can build your own library of behaviors,
which you can apply on the elements you wish. It is a great tool. I
already have more than 35 behaviors in .htc and would like to translate
everything to actionsheets too.

> Another thing useful to include would be "external link" 
> property. Maybe
> this should be included in html spec itself (i.e. "href ext" 
> - might be a
> bit against the universal spirit of the web though), but 
> something to deal
> with it would be good. This is a case where as it stands the 
> css specs,
> although not bloated in themselves, will definitely be used 
> to create bloat
> in html. I say this because it is very useful (again a basic 
> navigation aid)
> to have different colours for external and internal links. 

Give all your external links a class name and style them properly.

> appropriate class. You should not have to define your own classes for
> something that is of such widespread application. OK, it is 
> better than
> putting in the colours before each link, but there should be 
> an even simpler
> way.

Yes. Apply a behavior to every link
a { 
 that checks the href value and styles accordingly. Check if the
document is loaded first!

General authoring CSS questions should be addressed to 


www-style@w3.org is for technical discussion only.

>  When I was looking for 
> info about BeCss


MS implementation:


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Manos Batsis" <m.batsis@bsnet.gr>
> To: "AMollah" <am@freephone.fsnet.co.uk>
> Cc: <www-style@w3.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 2:54 PM
> Subject: RE: activel inks?
> Oh Dave how can I answer that without pretending I know everything.
> Great question. I wish I could express myself as simply as 
> you did when
> trying to convince people about my views.
> One thing is the 'bloat ware' characterisation many people 
> use for CSS.
> It is something most people in this list have in mind. The more heavy
> CSS becomes, the more it loses one of it's greatest value: power in a
> lightweight package.
> The other is that browsers take their time to adjust to 
> specs, making a
> developers life difficult in the meantime.
> Of course, all the above is nonsense in many cases, but very solid in
> others. Specifically about your problem though, you can 
> already achieve
> what you want with BeCSS.
> If you want to, I can make an IE behavior for you, although I will
> possibly ask for the equivalent N6 one in return ;-)
> Kindest regards,
> Manos
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AMollah [mailto:am@freephone.fsnet.co.uk]
> > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 4:42 PM
> > To: Manos Batsis
> > Subject: Re: activel inks?
> >
> >
> > Hi Manos,
> >
> > Thanks for replying.
> >
> > I'm sorry I'm quite new to this standards thing, but why
> > exactly shouldn't
> > css cover a "current" link if it covers "visited", "active" etc. ??
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Manos Batsis" <m.batsis@bsnet.gr>
> > To: "AMollah" <am@freephone.fsnet.co.uk>
> > Cc: <www-style@w3.org>
> > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 10:53 AM
> > Subject: RE: activel inks?
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AMollah [mailto:am@freephone.fsnet.co.uk]
> >
> > > You just need to look how many sites use javascript
> > > or other methods to indcate that a
> > > link is to the current page.
> >
> > Yeah I do that too but I do think that this is not an area 
> css should
> > cover, although I wouldn't mind if you know what I mean...
> >
> > Kindest regards,
> >
> > Manos
> >
> >
> >
Received on Tuesday, 3 July 2001 04:40:35 UTC

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