W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > June 1997

Re: list-item alignment in CSS

From: Todd Fahrner <fahrner@pobox.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:06:45 -0700
Message-Id: <v03102805afbb7a31f82f@[206.245.203.103]>
To: Chris Lilley <Chris.Lilley@sophia.inria.fr>, David Perrell <davidp@earthlink.net>, www-style <www-style@w3.org>
At 21:41 +0200 6.4.97, Chris Lilley wrote:

> > Todd Fahrner wrote:
> > > As long as we're still in the realm of interpretation, and in the
> > > absence of any implementations setting precedent, does it not make
> > > sense to promote the most useful interpretation rather than propose
> > > outright amendments to the recommendation
>
> Correct, although if ammendments are needed to correct outright errors
> then don't be shy sending them in (as if you would). Actually if
> clarification of interpretation is needed then I would say that the spec
> still has errors but there we are.

My immediate concern is that the people in Mountain View and Redmond
reach consensus about what the spec means - and quickly, in time for
implementation in the 4.0 releases. I suspect that neither public
beta has implemented "serious" support for the list-item display type
because of these ambiguities. At the same time, I'm guessing that
revisions to the recommendation at this late hour (however
attractive, like David's) would probably be too easy to dismiss as
"cherries on top of the frosting." I support whichever course of
action can deliver us from fudged, inconsistent, and
design-impervious implementations in the 4.0 browsers.

I hope the vendors can give some indication of their plans in this
regard, and of their willingness to negotiate a common solution.

> > > Has there been any discussion or detailed specification on how lists
> > > (or normal block-level elements) should be rendered when their
> > > display type is set to "inline"?
> >
> > More authoritative commentary needed.
>
> Agreed, and I look forward to hearing it. David, you start. After all,
> what the early implementors and page designers think, want, and how they
> interpret the spec is valuable feedback.

http://www.tiro.com/ shows paragraphs rendered inline, separated in
the medieval manner with rubrications. In a cramped, scroll-averse
world where color is often free, such a rendering for running text
could make a comeback. The presence of markers to separate the
"paragraph items" points to the artificiality of the distinction
between block and list-item display types.

> Actually there has been recent discussion about what happens with a multiply
> nested list where different list items have left-to-right and right-to-left
> directionality and then some joker sets the entire enclosing UL to be
> display: inline.

I'd say let it look like a train wreck. "Idiot-proof" can't be a
design requirement: they'll invent better idiots.

> One thing that seems to be needed for these inline lists is a way to treat
> the first and perhaps the last list element specially.

Yes, and to control the whitespace preceding, in addition to
following, any generated markers.

________________________________________
Todd Fahrner
mailto:fahrner@pobox.com
http://www.verso.com/

The printed page transcends space and time. The printed page, the
infinitude of books, must be transcended. THE ELECTRO-LIBRARY.

--El Lissitzky, 1923
Received on Wednesday, 4 June 1997 16:57:03 GMT

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