- From: Adrian Walker <adrianw@snet.net>
- Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 14:52:40 -0500
- To: Drew McDermott <drew.mcdermott@yale.edu>, <phayes@ai.uwf.edu>
- Cc: www-rdf-rules@w3.org, www-rdf-interest@w3.org, www-rdf-logic@w3.org, heflin@cse.lehigh.edu
Drew, Pat --
I have been following your debate about NAF (below) with great interest.
There's a paper "LCW-Based Agent Planning for the Semantic Web" by
Jeff Heflin and Hector Muņoz-Avila that addresses how to get the best of
both worlds.
You can download it from http://www.cse.lehigh.edu/~heflin/
Hope this helps,
Cheers, -- Adrian
INTERNET BUSINESS LOGIC
www.reengineeringllc.com
Dr. Adrian Walker
Reengineering LLC
PO Box 1412
Bristol
CT 06011-1412 USA
Phone: USA 860 583 9677
Cell: USA 860 830 2085
Fax: USA 860 314 1029
At 02:00 PM 12/3/03 -0500, you wrote:
> [me]
> >The NAF approach is likely to be much more efficient, much easier to
> >implement, and much more likely to yield a useful conclusion than the
> >heavy-duty theorem prover.
>
> [Pat Hayes]
> All true. It is also likely to be wrong,
> unfortunately. The fact that you can't think of a
> closer airport doesn't usually qualify as a good
> reason to conclude that there isn't one, unless
> you also know for sure that you know all the
> airport locations, so that if you don't know it,
> then its not there. Like, for example, if you
> have a list of all the airports. If you make
> this explicit, as you should, then you are back
> doing 'heavy-duty' reasoning.
>
>I was trying to stay within the vocabulary of the example, and I was
>assuming a plausible context that I didn't state, namely that someone
>was planning a trip. If you replace "nearest airport" by "nearest
>airport reasonable to travel someplace from here," then negation as
>failure is a reasonable strategy, assuming you know all the airports
>in the vicinity.
>
> BTW, calling it 'heavy-duty' is misleading. In
> the first case you have made all the equality
> reasoning explicit. In a prolog-style
> implementation this is all buried in the
> backtracking done by the interpreter: but it
> still needs to be done. The same actual
> *reasoning* is involved in both cases.
>
>Yes. But the NAF version is stylized in a way that permits efficient
>implementation. If you could be sure that the alternative always
>involved iterating through a list and doing a set of equality
>substitutions, you could probably find an equally efficient
>implementation. (I've often wondered why no one has worked on this.)
>In the general case, though, you have to have a system that does
>general-purpose reasoning about equality, which can involve a lot of
>search.
>
> > I hope the people who deprecate it realize
> >that the heavy-duty theorem prover is the only alternative.
>
> Its not a matter of alternatives. If you want to
> draw checkable valid conclusions, then you need
> to do this kind of reasoning.
>
>I don't want to draw checkable valid conclusions.
>
> If you want to
> make random guesses and hope for the best then
> you can of course work faster, but don't expect
> others to believe in your conclusions.
>
>At least I'll _have_ conclusions.
>
> Negation-as-failure is NOT a good general
> reasoning strategy: 99.99% of the time it will
> immediately produce childishly ludicrous
> conclusions: I don't know anyone called Jose, so
> there isn't anyone called Jose; I never heard of
> SARS, ...
>
>Where have you been?
>
>Of course negation-as-failure is not the way to handle "not" in
>general; it's the way to handle it when you don't care about possible
>nearby secret airports and the like.
>
> The
> industrial uses of Prolog-style rules all are
> designed within controlled environments,
> typically using databases, where such special
> conditions can be assumed.
>
>To repeat what I said above, if you use NAF as an efficient way to
>draw valid conclusions, you're right. I prefer to think of it as a
>way to draw conclusions that may well be wrong, in situations where
>the wrongness of a probably correct conclusion is not fatal. The
>burden is on someone who finds this distasteful to show that pure
>deductive techniques will suffice for real-world applications.
>
> -- Drew
>
>--
> -- Drew McDermott
> Yale University CS Dept.
Received on Wednesday, 3 December 2003 14:48:06 UTC