W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-rdf-logic@w3.org > February 2002

Re: reification test case

From: Patrick Stickler <patrick.stickler@nokia.com>
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 23:36:06 +0200
To: Pat Hayes <phayes@ai.uwf.edu>
CC: <seth@robustai.net>, RDF Logic <www-rdf-logic@w3.org>
Message-ID: <B884CB66.D2D7%patrick.stickler@nokia.com>
On 2002-02-04 22:56, "ext Pat Hayes" <phayes@ai.uwf.edu> wrote:

>>>  Hmmm.... does the MT automatically smush Bnodes in the same graph with the
>>>  same identical property arcs, even though the Bnode subject is different ?
>> It has been suggested that because they are empty circles,
>> they smush together just fine, with no aftertraces... ;-)
> Hey, who said that?

You're not asking me to be a tattletale are you Pat? ;-)

> There is a lemma (second anonymity lemma in
> section 2 ) in the MT document, with proof (in the working draft,
> just about to appear) that says that you cannot validly smush two
> Bnodes.

Glad to hear -- not that I didn't expect this was the
case anyway.

>>>> If we're not going to take the implications of reification
>>>>  seriously, let's just throw it out.
>>>  If we throw it out how are we to describe statements?
>> Exactly.
> Well, but who needs to? There are much simpler ways of *referring to*
> a statement. 

For example...?

> And in any case, does reification enable you to describe
> a particular statement?

It doesn't allow you to describe a particular instance
of a statement, but it does allow you to describe a particular
statement insofar as the knowledge expressed is concerned, which
I think is good enough for most purposes.

> Seems to me that as currently understood, it
> only allows you to say that some statement with a particular form
> *exists*. There's no way to say 'this statement... has this form....'
> because there's no way to associate the description with the actual
> statement.

Insofar as the instance of the statement, no, but insofar
as associating a description with some expression of
knowledge, it does. Though, this may be one of those
half empty versus half full sort of things -- as the
great Obi-Wan Kenobi said "a great many of the truths
we cling to depend upon a particular point of view" ;-)



> Pat

Patrick Stickler              Phone: +358 50 483 9453
Senior Research Scientist     Fax:   +358 7180 35409
Nokia Research Center         Email: patrick.stickler@nokia.com
Received on Monday, 4 February 2002 16:37:08 UTC

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