W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-rdf-interest@w3.org > September 2001

Re: Something Different

From: Mark Brownell <gizmotron@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 19:27:37 -0400
Message-ID: <000e01c13406$dd1e8ea0$fa34103f@oemcomputer>
To: "Sean B. Palmer" <sean@mysterylights.com>, <www-rdf-interest@w3.org>
Hi Sean,

Oh boy! I knew this was going to be fun.

> Hi,
>
> > [...] I'm trying to work out the best version of a RDF type
>
> I'm not too sure what you mean by "RDF type" here; an RDF language, or
> other application utilizing RDF, perhaps? "RDF type" sounds a lot like what
> you say when you read the "rdf:type" QName out loud, which is a kind of
> de_facto method for referring to the type property in the RDF namespace [1]
> in prose.

What I mean is I would like to have a RSS/RDF/Dublin Core standard for my experimental project that
is placed in the <head> portion of a plain HTML document. I have use for such a thing.

>
> [...]
> > If I were able to show you a prototype application that does the
> > following, would you want to see it?
> >
> > 1. Makes use of XML element type tags from within HTML pages.
>
> XML element type tags? Like SVG-in-HTML, or MathML-in-HTML? And by HTML, I
> presume that you mean XHTML (I'm not sure what good XML does when it's
> embedded in non-XML SGML). Perhaps you're talking about XML RDF directly
> embedded in XHTML (which a notion that I'm debating against at the moment).
> You'll have to be a bit more specific.

What I mean is simple XML elements, (no attributes, namespaces), that are natural language in their
use.

>
> > 2. Reads a RDF, Dublin Core combination designed for this
> > application in the same HTML page. Has a display feature for
> > this type of RDF.
>
> Numerous people have done work on this, but it always hides in a bit of a
> "will it/won't it?" state. HTML wasn't really designed with metadata in
> mind (it doesn't appear to have been designed with anything in mind, for
> that matter), so it's difficult to come up with a solution for extracting
> metadata from HTML that everyone is happy with, especially when some people
> want DLGs, RSS feeds, human readable version of the metadata... and so on.
> It's difficult to suit everyone's tastes.

I agree with that completely. I'm just trying to get my mind around what could work best for this
idea.

>
> > 3. Makes use of declared links from the HTML document
> > that act as a portal to other relative information.
>
> I'm not too sure what you're getting at there, once again. Perhaps you mean
> links to RDF documents that describe the current document, or using HTML as
> a hub document to a set of related resources (which would fit in with
> "portal")? This would be quite neat, but once again, it's difficult - if
> not impossible - to get people to agree upon methods for doing this.

If I create my own HTML enhancement that does not conflict with current browsers in use today, then
I can deliver applications that make use of these enhancements. Since this is just an experimental
project at this time, and since I'm jazzed out of my brains as to the aspects of a semantic web, and
the use of RDF in some form, I don't really know what to say here. I guess that if my experiment is
considered far out then I would at least want it to have the correct RDF Dublin Core that will be in
the main stream.

>
> > 4. Auto downloads all of the links declared in item 3 for the
> > creation of combined objects.
> >
> > 5. Allows selections from topical phrases or words, declared
> > with the XML type elements, that returns selected information
> > created by the markup in a display format.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by these two. Hmm... and it seems to get more
> dense (in the non-pejorative sense) from here on down. Some of your ideas
> seem to be related to the "Semantic Cloud/SEM" thing that Seth Russell
> often talks about (cf. [2]). There's also some collaborative stuff like
> Annotea linked to from the Semantic Web Advanced Development homepage [3]
> that may be of interest to you.
>
> [1] http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#type
> [2] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sem-dev/
> [3] http://www.w3.org/2000/01/sw/
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Kindest Regards,
> Sean B. Palmer
> @prefix : <http://webns.net/roughterms/> .
> :Sean :hasHomepage <http://purl.org/net/sbp/> .
>

I'm working on this to de-densify it as I develop it. I'm glad that I passed under the radar screen
enough to miss being hit by a pejorative.

Now for the fun stuff. The enhancement to the HTML, that I mentioned, is something I call Meaningful
Text Markup Language. It is a natural language way of adding handles to the text found in HTML
pages, where the handles are used to manipulate the fragments of the HTML document that they
encapsulate the text with. I stole the idea from XML, or at least a form of XML that I wanted XML to
be.

I don't know where I'm going with this. I had an idea and so I built it. You are absolutely correct
in saying "It's difficult to suit everyone's tastes."

So there is a document at this link that explains MTML. You can view MTML being used in some of the
web documents there. The application is accessible from there as well.

http://www.gizmotron.org/mtml

I like what I've created so far. I'm just trying to create a descent RDF navigation system for it.

Best regards,
Mark Brownell
Gizmotron Graphics http://www.gizmotron.org
Gestalt Global Corporation http://www.g-g.org
Received on Sunday, 2 September 2001 19:30:42 GMT

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