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RE: summary of 'a triple is not unique' and 'statements/reifi ed' statements

From: McBride, Brian <bwm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 10:17:38 -0000
Message-ID: <5E13A1874524D411A876006008CD059F239515@0-mail-1.hpl.hp.com>
To: www-rdf-interest@w3c.org


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gabe Beged-Dov [mailto:begeddov@jfinity.com]
> Sent: 30 November 2000 06:06
> To: Seth Russell
> Cc: Libby Miller; www-rdf-interest@w3c.org
> Subject: Re: summary of 'a triple is not unique' and
> 'statements/reified' statements
> 
> 
> Seth Russell wrote:
> > 
> > Libby Miller wrote:
> 
> <snip />
> 
> > > and that we do need something like Gabe's suggestion of 
> bags of reified
> > > statements [1] at least as an interpretation of the 
> information from a
> > > source of RDF (I don't think Gabe means that all 
> serializations of RDF
> > > should follow this format, just the handling of rdf data 
> from other
> > > sources - I might be wrong...). So this has implications 
> for handling
> > > the triples we have in a consistent way from different 
> sources, and
> > > therefore also implications about how we match triples (as in your
> > > suggestion) and by extension, for querying.
> > 
> > I must be getting old, I simply cannot follow what Gabe is 
> saying.  It seems to
> > conflate the syntax and  the model in a way that I am not 
> used to.  I keep
> > worrying that I am being tricked, and I won't be able to 
> put a statement in a
> > context, and then put statements about those statements in 
> another context.
> > Perhaps this has been provided for, but I haven't seen any 
> diagrams that I
> > understand.  Sorry, If I can't see it in a diagram, then I 
> don't believe it.
> 
> It would help if you would indicate a specific point of mine that you
> can't follow. I've tried to phrase my points in various ways and would
> be happy to learn what aspects of my phrasing are throwing 
> things off. 
> 
> BTW, the use of the term "model" earlier in your message made me
> revisit the thread from last month and Sergey's posting [2]. He makes
> the point that there is only one model which is "the model" which
> contains all the statements/triples in existence. It corresponds to
> the set of Statements which is described in the formal model in the
> M&S. 
> 
> Sightings of these triples can occur in many places of which places on
> the web are of most interest to me. An RDF/XML document is a specific
> place that members of the universal Statements set can  either occur
> in and/or be referred to. The M&S provides a way to capture the fact
> that these occurences or references happened at a specific place on
> the web. The URI portion of the reified resource identifier provides
> this information.

Should such an identifier exist.  Most of such resources are anonymous.

> 
> In addition, the M&S provides a way of tracing the syntactic context
> of a statement occurrence to a finer level by associating all the
> statement occurrences in a particular RDF/XML Description element to a
> Bag. 
> 
> The reified statement resource and the Description Bag are also used
> for other purposes than providing traceability and context. Since they
> are resources, they can be the objects of statements and this is the
> primary way that the M&S discusses their utility. I happen to think
> that it is a happy happenstance that they can also be used to provide
> other critical capabilities for document webs.
> 
> Hope this helps even if there aren't any pictures :-)

You've raised a good point and expressed it very clearly.

Libby's document is about statings v statements.

You have established that that the bags representing descriptions
are modeling syntactic entitities, i.e. the description elements
in a document.  But I'm not sure you've made the case that the
resources in a bag representing a description (i.e. the reified
statements) represent statings not statements, if indeed that is
the intent.  Can you complete the argument?  I think it can be
completed the other way.

Brian




> 
> Gabe
> 
> [1]
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-logic/2000Nov/0103.html
> [2]
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2000Oct/0180.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > Seth Russell
> 
> -- 
> --------------------------- 
> http://www.jfinity.com/gabe
> 
Received on Thursday, 30 November 2000 05:17:47 GMT

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