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RE: ungetable http URIs

From: Seaborne, Andy <Andy_Seaborne@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:57:55 -0000
Message-ID: <E864E95CB35C1C46B72FEA0626A2E808712DAE@0-mail-br1.hpl.hp.com>
To: "Butler, Mark" <Mark_Butler@hplb.hpl.hp.com>, SIMILE public list <www-rdf-dspace@w3.org>



-------- Original Message --------
> From: Butler, Mark <mailto:Mark_Butler@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
> Date: 1 December 2003 17:34
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> Actually I think there are two questions here:
> 
> First, within the scope of the demo: I think we have agreement that we
> should not be using ungetable URLs right?

Yes - we should be using gettable URLs where it makes sense.  Probably URNs
for people.

> So there are two possible
> solutions:
> a) Should we modify the XSLT stylesheet and re-run it to create the
> Artstor 
> data so that it uses URNs rather than URLs avoiding ungetable URIs?

Not sure exactly what you mean here - "should not be using ungetable URLs
right" parses a double negative to to "use URLs" for me.

> b) Or should we use Joseki infrastructure to ensure that it is possible
> to 
> get those URLs?

Separate issue.  See below.

> 
> Andy, perhaps you can clarify - if we switch to using URNs, can we use
> Joseki are does this create problems?

Gettablity refers to the ability to do a plain HTTP GET on the URL and get
something.  Joseki is providing explicit knowledge bases (KB) on the web -
within a KB, you can obtain information about any URI(ref).

GET http://simileserver/artstore?lang=fetch&r=urn:foobar 

will fetch the information with urn:foobar as subhect (and related
information) from the artstore metadat located at
http://simileserver/artstore There is no tie between the URL for the KB and
the URIs for the RDF in the KB (unless you want to do that).

Joseki is not an infrastructure for placing meaningful documents at URLs -
you just need Apache for that.

> 
> If we agree on a), then I can create the data fairly quickly. If this is
> holding up progress, perhaps we need to go with a) for now -
> particularly as 
> we are not necessarily looking for the best solution, rather the one
> that 
> helps the demo move along? If we agree on b), then we need to revisit
> the 
> problem of creating a Joseki instance that only serves data to select IP
> addresses, and set up two Joseki instances, one within the HP firewall
> and 
> the other at MIT - I think we had a proposal about how to solve the
> security 
> problem?
> 
> Within the longer term scope of SIMILE, I think there are 4
> possibilities: 
> c) use URLs that currently ungetable, but might be getable in the future
> d) use URLs and use Joseki infrastructure to ensure they are getable
> e) use URLs and some other type of infrastructure e.g. Tomcat to return
> "no 
> further data"
> f) use URNs
> 
> have I missed anything?
> 
> Dr Mark H. Butler
> Research Scientist                HP Labs Bristol
> mark-h_butler@hp.com
> Internet: http://www-uk.hpl.hp.com/people/marbut/
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nick Matsakis [mailto:matsakis@mit.edu]
> > Sent: 01 December 2003 17:17
> > To: Stefano Mazzocchi
> > Cc: SIMILE public list
> > Subject: Re: ungetable http URIs
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> > 
> > > If I got to vote, I would vote +1 for "getable" URIs because I think
> > > that they don't add complexity, they are consistent with the general
> > > XML movement, and they are potentially more valuable in the future.
> > 
> > If I got to vote, I would say 'getable' URIs should be
> > assigned to things
> > that can be expressed as bits, or things that are elements of
> > RDF schemas
> > (e.g. if you come across something with an RDF type you don't
> > recognize, it would be nice if there was a schema saying something
> > that type at a conveniently retrivable URL). 
> > 
> > I think things that don't meet those requirements should get
> > ungetable URIs. 
> > 
> > Nick
Received on Monday, 1 December 2003 13:02:00 EST

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