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Re: progress on MeetingRecords, trouble migrating from cyc:subEvents to sumo:part

From: Adam Pease <adampease@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 07:46:20 -0700
Message-Id: <>
To: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>,www-rdf-calendar@w3.org

Hi Dan,
   Very glad to see that you are experimenting with SUMO.  The main page 
for SUMO that I maintain, as its current Technical Editor for the IEEE SUO 
group, is at <http://www.ontologyportal.org>.
   The argument order issue is a common one with frame-based vs. logical 
languages.  Logic doesn't "privilege" the first argument.  The second 
argument is no more or less important than the first.  One reason I'm not 
so enthusiastic about OWL is that it has so many limitations for doing 
knowledge representation, and why I see OWL gradually moving toward the 
expressive capabilities one finds in first order logic.  RDF's limitations 
are much more dramatic.
   However, from a practical standpoint of having different communities, 
who use different tools, work together, you're absolutely right that it 
would be better if SUMO could be more compatible.  I'll look into this.


At 12:20 PM 9/24/2004, Dan Connolly wrote:
>Adam, calendar folks,
>Calendars have a certain overlap with
>   http://esw.w3.org/topic/MeetingRecords
>Charles and I were talking about representing action items
>as ical:Vtodo objects.
>I started in that direction...
>I adopted some conventions when writing up
>the minutes...
>    http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf3-brs
>and then wrote
>   http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/grokftf.xsl
>which produces
>   http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf3-brs-formal
>I'm comfortable with cyc's time/event ontology
>   http://www.cyc.com/cycdoc/vocab/time-vocab.html
>and I started along the lines of
>   meeting cyc:subEvents agendum1.
>   agendum1 cyc:subEvents decision1_1, action1_2.
>   action1-1 tbd:owner fred.
>but then I thought revisit the cyc vs sumo issue; I was
>happy to find sumo:FormalMeeting, sumo:Resolution and such
>using the browser
>   http://berkelium.teknowledge.com:8080/sigma/index.html
>linked from the (apparent) SUMO home page...
>   http://ontology.teknowledge.com/
>and I tried replacing
>   meeting cyc:subEvents agendum1.
>   meeting sumo:part agendum1.
>only to realize that sumo:part goes the other way:
>   ?PART sumo:part ?WHOLE.
>This is inside-out w.r.t. using XSLT to go from
>XHTML to RDF/XML. I disocvered several other
>ways in which sumo doesn't follow the
>   http://esw.w3.org/topic/RoleNoun
>convention; e.g. sumo:title and sumo:names
>go the other way; that rubs hard against RDF's limitation
>regarding literals in the subject position.
>I don't know whether it's feasible to change SUMO in this respect;
>I can imagine that would be a lot of work and disruption.
>But it would make working with SUMO in RDF/XML much nicer.
>Dan Connolly, W3C http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
>D3C2 887B 0F92 6005 C541  0875 0F91 96DE 6E52 C29E
Received on Thursday, 30 September 2004 01:15:54 UTC

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