From: Joe D Williams <joedwil@earthlink.net>

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 02:52:33 -0800

Message-ID: <61ABABE19B864AB69B08E193948A8322@joe1446a4150a8>

To: "Shelley Powers" <shelley.just@gmail.com>, <www-math@w3.org>

Cc: "HTMLWG WG" <public-html@w3.org>

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 02:52:33 -0800

Message-ID: <61ABABE19B864AB69B08E193948A8322@joe1446a4150a8>

To: "Shelley Powers" <shelley.just@gmail.com>, <www-math@w3.org>

Cc: "HTMLWG WG" <public-html@w3.org>

Great report, Shelley. The group and editor were very receptive. I would expect to get comments on these comments. Thanks Again and Best Regards, Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shelley Powers" <shelley.just@gmail.com> To: <www-math@w3.org> Cc: "HTMLWG WG" <public-html@w3.org> Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 7:18 AM Subject: [MathML3-last-call] comments from HTML WG > Following are some general comments about the MathML 3.0 draft from > the HTML WG, particularly as the MathML specification relates to > current effort with HTML5. First, though, we wish to extend to the > Math WG congratulations for reaching this important milestone. > > Related to the addition of the new href attribute[1]: > > 1. The attribute href has been added for use with several MathML > elements, rather than using xlink:href, from MathML 2.0. However, > the > document states that because of compound document requirements, > xlink:href can still be used. This could cause confusion when > viewing > the documentation for MathML as foreign object in HTML5. In the > HTML5 > specification, if the href attribute is associated with the XLink > namespace, it must be given as xlink:href in the document. > > The MathML href attribute is now, by default, associated with the > MathML namespace. But this isn't specifically stated in the > document, > and someone reading both may become confused, and assume they have > to > use xlink:href with MathML embedded in HTML5. The document may want > to > demonstrate how href can be used with embedded MathML in the > document > section detailing MathML embedded in HTML. > > 2. Is the plan to drop support for xlink:href in MathML UAs at some > point? If not, we're curious as to why the Math WG introduced the > new > attribute? > > 3. If the UA supports both, what should happen when both are > specified > on one element? > > 4. We're also curious as to why the new href attribute takes a URI > rather than IRI? > > > Related to the Chapter 6.4, Combining MathML and Other Formats, and > specific to 6.4.1, Mixing MathML and HTML: > > 5. The specification includes a section discussing MathML and HTML. > However, the section only references MathML in XHTML. With HTML5, > MathML can be used in HTML, and there are additional constraints on > using MathML in HTML, including the fact that the outer math element > is specified without a prefix (such as m:math, as shown in the > example), though the use of a namespace and prefix can work with > XHTML. > > There are other constraints associated with MathML in HTML. Could > this > one section be split in two, with one section detailing MathML in > XHTML, and one in HTML? > > In particular, HTML allows unquoted attributes, and elements without > closing tags (if such are given in the list of allowed elements > without closing tags). These looser specifications also apply to > foreign > objects such as SVG and MathML (though user agents are encouraged to > provide an export facility providing properly formatted XML). > However, > people can paste properly formatted XML into HTML, and it will be > supported. > > Pasting MathML into HTML does lead to another issue: the use of > namespaced attributes. Namespaced attributes can be included in > MathML, but, currently, the validator does provide a warning for > namespaced attributes in SVG or MathML when embedded in HTML. The > same > applies to properly formatted XML entities and attributes that might > be included within the MathML annotation-xml > element. > > In addition, there are also, currently, DOM namespace handling > differences associated with MathML pasted into HTML, as compared to > MathML pasted into XHTML. > > Both the DOM differences and the validator warnings, in addition to > the syntax differences, such as unquoted attribute values, might be > surprising and confusing to folks who expect properly formatted XML > in > HTML. > > 6. The section contains the following passage: > > "To fully integrate MathML into XHTML, it should be possible not > only > to embed MathML in XHTML, as described in Section 6.2.1 Recognizing > MathML in XML, but also to embed XHTML in MathML. However, the > problem > of supporting XHTML in MathML presents many difficulties. Therefore, > at present, the MathML specification does not allow XHTML elements > within a MathML expression, although this situation may be subject > to > change in a future revision of MathML." > > What are the difficulties referenced in the document? > > In particular, the HTML5 parser supports HTML and SVG in <mi>, <mo>, > <mn>, <ms>, <mtext> and SVG in <annotation-xml>. XHTML and SVG in > MathML in these places works fine in Firefox and Opera today when > using application/xhtml+xml. We're curious as to why MathML doesn't > allow what is, at a minimum, expressible in text/html? > > > Other, general comments: > > 7. In the element listing [2] you show an element labeled td, but > the > link associated with it leads to a section describing an element > labeled mtd. Possible typo? > > 8. In the section describing color[3] you reference color names from > HTML4. Is there a reason MathML doesn't use css3-color SVG color > keywords instead of HTML4 color keywords? > > 9. The index lists two values, my:background and my:color, which are > also demonstrated in the section to which they're linked. These > would > seem to be from demonstrations of bringing in color or background > from > another namespace. Including them in the index could generate > confusion. > > Shelley Powers > HTML WG > > [1] > http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-MathML3-20090924/chapter2.html#fund.globatt > [2] > http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-MathML3-20090924/appendixh.html#index.elem > [3] > http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-MathML3-20090924/chapter2.html#type.color >Received on Saturday, 7 November 2009 10:53:18 GMT

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