From: W Naylor <wn@cs.bath.ac.uk>

Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:14:09 +0100 (BST)

To: Helder Ferreira <hfilipe@fe.up.pt>

Cc: Andreas Strotmann <Strotmann@rrz.uni-koeln.de>, <David.Pawson@rnib.org.uk>, <www-math@w3.org>, Diamantino Freitas <dfreitas@fe.up.pt>

Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0406011507320.22903-100000@dj.cs.bath.ac.uk>

Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:14:09 +0100 (BST)

To: Helder Ferreira <hfilipe@fe.up.pt>

Cc: Andreas Strotmann <Strotmann@rrz.uni-koeln.de>, <David.Pawson@rnib.org.uk>, <www-math@w3.org>, Diamantino Freitas <dfreitas@fe.up.pt>

Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0406011507320.22903-100000@dj.cs.bath.ac.uk>

On Tue, 1 Jun 2004, Helder Ferreira wrote: > > Hi Andreas, > > True. MathML Content Markup seems at first better. However there are 2 open > issues: > > (1) MathML Content Markup only covers basic math. The operator's dictionary > and support is not very big. OpenMath is doing a better job on that. However MathML Content Markup may reference OpenMath content dictionary and is therefore as 'big' as OpenMath using the semantics or csymbol elements. > (2) Who uses MathML Content Markup in WebPages? Noone. The major > contribution on the web is based on Presentation-Markup. So seems to me that > a program that speaks MathML needs to understand Presentation Markup too. so including content MathML in web pages is simply a matter of including the required XSLT stylesheet in an appropriate place and include a processing instruction pointing to that stylesheet, more information may be found about this (including stylesheets:David Carlisles) at: http://www.w3.org/Math/XSL/Overview-tech.html hope this helps, Bill > > Concluding the following: > > 1. A program that does MathML Audio Rendering needs to support both Content > and Presentation Markup. > 2. By parsing Presentation and interpreting the markup we are in deed doing > a kind of Presentation to Content Markup (which is not an easy task, and not > being implemented yet), and then converting the meaning of the mathematical > expression into plain text and therefore in audio using a TTS. > > Regards, > > Helder > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andreas Strotmann" <Strotmann@rrz.uni-koeln.de> > To: "Helder Ferreira" <hfilipe@fe.up.pt> > Cc: <David.Pawson@rnib.org.uk>; <www-math@w3.org>; "Diamantino Freitas" > <dfreitas@fe.up.pt> > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 2:24 PM > Subject: Re: mathml to plain text | audio? > > > > Note that even though Aster is used to render LaTeX, T.V. Raman's > > dissertation makes it clear that his system does an enormous amount of > > work to recognize the logical structure of the formulas it reads. > > > > If I understand T.V.Raman correctly, for text / audio rendering, > > MathML-Content should therefore be a much better-quality input than > > MathML-Presentation, and I suspect that MathML-Presentation text/audio > > rendering should really be done as a two-phase process that first does > > MathML-Presentation to MathML-Content recognition. > > > > -- Andreas > > > > Helder Ferreira wrote: > > > > > You can also look into the T.V. Raman's work about ASTER.- > > > http://www.cs.cornell.edu/Info/People/raman/aster/demo.html . > > > However ASTER works for Latex documents. Nevertheless, you can transform > > > Latex to MathML (see > http://www.orcca.on.ca/MathML/texmml/textomml.html ). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <David.Pawson@rnib.org.uk> > > > To: <www-math@w3.org> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 12:52 PM > > > Subject: mathml to plain text | audio? > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >>www.daisy.org is a group of organisations who produce smil based > > >>'talking books'. Synchronised text and audio for blind and partially > > >>sighted people. > > >> > > >>We are starting to look at incorporating mathml into our schema, > > >>and that's fine for producing braille, just hard work. > > >> > > >>However, for 'spoken' math(s), it presents a problem of automation. > > >>For more complex stuff, human readers tend to make mistakes, hence > > >>synthetic speech is often used. > > >> > > >>Put simply, mathml isn't 'readable' in its XML format (my view :-). > > >>Certainly if serialised it wouldn't sound very good via a TTS engine. > > >> > > >>I'm informed others have looked at mathml to 'plain text' transforms, > > >> perhaps with paragraph level formatting. > > >>I'm wondering if any such transforms are available open source, or could > > >>be licenced to the daisy group for our readers? > > >> > > >>Any pointers appreciated. > > >> > > >>Regards DaveP. > > >>www.rnib.org.uk > > >> > > >>Not subscribed to this list, so please copy me in. > > >> > > >> > > >>**** snip here ***** > > >> > > >>-- > > >>DISCLAIMER: > > >> > > >>NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments is > > >>confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended > > >>recipient you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of the > > >>content of it or of any attachment; you are requested to notify the > > >>sender immediately of your receipt of the email and then to delete it > > >>and any attachments from your system. > > >> > > >>RNIB endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated by > > >>its staff are free from viruses or other contaminants. However, it > > >>cannot accept any responsibility for any such which are transmitted. > > >>We therefore recommend you scan all attachments. > > >> > > >>Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email and > > >>any attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily represent > > >>those of RNIB. > > >> > > >>RNIB Registered Charity Number: 226227 > > >> > > >>Website: http://www.rnib.org.uk > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Received on Tuesday, 1 June 2004 10:17:23 GMT

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