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Re: mathml to plain text | audio?

From: W Naylor <wn@cs.bath.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:14:09 +0100 (BST)
To: Helder Ferreira <hfilipe@fe.up.pt>
Cc: Andreas Strotmann <Strotmann@rrz.uni-koeln.de>, <David.Pawson@rnib.org.uk>, <www-math@w3.org>, Diamantino Freitas <dfreitas@fe.up.pt>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0406011507320.22903-100000@dj.cs.bath.ac.uk>

On Tue, 1 Jun 2004, Helder Ferreira wrote:

> 
> Hi Andreas,
> 
> True. MathML Content Markup seems at first better. However there are 2 open
> issues:
> 
> (1) MathML Content Markup only covers basic math. The operator's dictionary
> and support is not very big. OpenMath is doing a better job on that.

However MathML Content Markup may reference OpenMath content dictionary
and is therefore as 'big' as OpenMath using the semantics or csymbol 
elements.

> (2) Who uses MathML Content Markup in WebPages? Noone. The major
> contribution on the web is based on Presentation-Markup. So seems to me that
> a program that speaks MathML needs to understand Presentation Markup too.

so including content MathML in web pages is simply a matter of including 
the required XSLT stylesheet in an appropriate place and include a 
processing instruction pointing to that stylesheet, more information may 
be found about this (including stylesheets:David Carlisles) at:
http://www.w3.org/Math/XSL/Overview-tech.html

hope this helps,

Bill

> 
> Concluding the following:
> 
> 1. A program that does MathML Audio Rendering needs to support both Content
> and Presentation Markup.
> 2. By parsing Presentation and interpreting the markup we are in deed doing
> a kind of Presentation to Content Markup (which is not an easy task, and not
> being implemented yet), and then converting the meaning of the mathematical
> expression into plain text and therefore in audio using a TTS.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Helder
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Andreas Strotmann" <Strotmann@rrz.uni-koeln.de>
> To: "Helder Ferreira" <hfilipe@fe.up.pt>
> Cc: <David.Pawson@rnib.org.uk>; <www-math@w3.org>; "Diamantino Freitas"
> <dfreitas@fe.up.pt>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 2:24 PM
> Subject: Re: mathml to plain text | audio?
> 
> 
> > Note that even though Aster is used to render LaTeX, T.V. Raman's
> > dissertation makes it clear that his system does an enormous amount of
> > work to recognize the logical structure of the formulas it reads.
> >
> > If I understand T.V.Raman correctly, for text / audio rendering,
> > MathML-Content should therefore be a much better-quality input than
> > MathML-Presentation, and I suspect that MathML-Presentation text/audio
> > rendering should really be done as a two-phase process that first does
> > MathML-Presentation to MathML-Content recognition.
> >
> >   -- Andreas
> >
> > Helder Ferreira wrote:
> >
> > > You can also look into the T.V. Raman's work about ASTER.-
> > > http://www.cs.cornell.edu/Info/People/raman/aster/demo.html .
> > > However ASTER works for Latex documents. Nevertheless, you can transform
> > > Latex to MathML (see
> http://www.orcca.on.ca/MathML/texmml/textomml.html ).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: <David.Pawson@rnib.org.uk>
> > > To: <www-math@w3.org>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 12:52 PM
> > > Subject: mathml to plain text | audio?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >>www.daisy.org is a group of organisations who produce smil based
> > >>'talking books'. Synchronised text and audio for blind and partially
> > >>sighted people.
> > >>
> > >>We are starting to look at incorporating mathml into our schema,
> > >>and that's fine for producing braille, just hard work.
> > >>
> > >>However, for 'spoken' math(s), it presents a problem  of automation.
> > >>For more complex stuff, human readers tend to make mistakes, hence
> > >>synthetic speech is often used.
> > >>
> > >>Put simply, mathml isn't 'readable' in its XML format (my view :-).
> > >>Certainly if serialised it wouldn't sound very good via a TTS engine.
> > >>
> > >>I'm informed others have looked at mathml to 'plain text' transforms,
> > >> perhaps with paragraph level formatting.
> > >>I'm wondering if any such transforms are available open source, or could
> > >>be licenced to the daisy group for our readers?
> > >>
> > >>Any pointers appreciated.
> > >>
> > >>Regards DaveP.
> > >>www.rnib.org.uk
> > >>
> > >>Not subscribed to this list, so please copy me in.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>**** snip here *****
> > >>
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> 
> 
> 
> 
Received on Tuesday, 1 June 2004 10:17:23 GMT

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