From: David Carlisle <davidc@nag.co.uk>

Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 22:46:03 +0100

Message-Id: <200306282146.WAA20083@e3000>

To: osserman@math.mit.edu

CC: www-math@w3.org

Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 22:46:03 +0100

Message-Id: <200306282146.WAA20083@e3000>

To: osserman@math.mit.edu

CC: www-math@w3.org

> I saw the SVG example, but there was (as far as I can recall) no mention of > being able to place MathML elements inside it. yes as I say we were trying to be conservative in teh text of the spec, as multiple namespace embedding is pushing the limits of the current renders however there is an example here: http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/WD-XHTMLplusMathMLplusSVG-20020430/ Not quite a commutative diagram but mathml inside svg inside html > Mozilla seems to think it can handle this, or will at least be able to at > some point, and that's enough for me (given that what I have in mind is more > for professional use that commercial use, I have no compunctions about > making my users stick to particular software). Or am I missing something? Yes I think the SVG buillds of mozilla should handle this OK, I'm not sure what the current state is, there were somle licence issues last time I looked, perhaps they got solved? > that SVG has extension support for MathML imbedded in it. Hmm perhaps, probably not in the next draft though, which is nearly ready for release. > I really don't understand why MathML shouldn't include a simple IMG > element into which one could conveniently place MathML fragments. It seems > like the clean and semantically correct solution to the situation. You mean something that would place mathml fragments by coordinates to overlay an image? It would be possible but rather a large extension I think, experience with commutative drawing packages in latex suggests it wouldn't really be enough, the better ones xypic, pstricks etc have a certain level of feedback so the math typesetting and node positioning can interact. You wouldn't get this via a mechanism that just allowed positioning of fragments over an image, I think. > Flipping through any algebraically geometry book (Hartshorne's is > definitely a good example) will give you a sense of what is likely to be > used in the field -- Yes I was an algebraic topologist in a previous life, so I could probably dig out a few commutative diagrams, what isn't so clear though are requirements for commutative diagrams in a web/mathml context. Is static layout sufficient or would a usable system require the layout to change if window sizes/ font sizes were changed? is css positioning adequate (I made some inconclusive experiments some time back) SVG positioning is certainly adequate (if svg renderers can actually cope with the svg foreign object mechanism to allow mathml fragments) but is that overkill.... I really don't know the answer to any of these questions. DavidReceived on Saturday, 28 June 2003 17:46:10 UTC

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