W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-math@w3.org > June 2003

Re: Labeled diagram and figure questions

From: David Carlisle <davidc@nag.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 22:46:03 +0100
Message-Id: <200306282146.WAA20083@e3000>
To: osserman@math.mit.edu
CC: www-math@w3.org



> I saw the SVG example, but there was (as far as I can recall) no mention of
> being able to place MathML elements inside it.
yes as I say we were trying to be conservative in teh text of the spec,
as multiple namespace  embedding is pushing the limits of the current renders
however there is an example here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/WD-XHTMLplusMathMLplusSVG-20020430/
Not quite a commutative diagram but mathml inside svg inside html

>   Mozilla seems to think it can handle this, or will at least be able to at
> some point, and that's enough for me (given that what I have in mind is more
> for professional use that commercial use, I have no compunctions about
> making my users stick to particular software). Or am I missing something?

Yes I think the SVG buillds of mozilla should handle this OK, I'm not
sure what the current state is, there were somle licence issues last
time I looked, perhaps they got solved?


> that SVG has extension support for MathML imbedded in it.
Hmm perhaps, probably not in the next draft though, which is nearly
ready for release.

>    I really don't understand why MathML shouldn't include a simple IMG
> element into which one could conveniently place MathML fragments. It seems
> like the clean and semantically correct solution to the situation.

You mean something that would place mathml fragments by coordinates
to overlay an image? It would be possible but rather a large extension I
think, experience with commutative drawing packages in latex suggests it
wouldn't really be enough, the better ones xypic, pstricks etc have a
certain level of feedback so the math typesetting and node positioning
can interact. You wouldn't get this via a mechanism that just allowed
positioning of fragments over an image, I think.

>    Flipping through any algebraically geometry book (Hartshorne's is
> definitely a good example) will give you a sense of what is likely to be
> used in the field --

Yes I was an algebraic topologist in a previous life, so I could
probably dig out a few commutative diagrams, what isn't so clear though
are requirements for commutative diagrams in a web/mathml context.
Is static layout sufficient or would a usable system require the layout
to change if window sizes/ font sizes were changed?
is css positioning adequate (I made some inconclusive experiments
some time back) SVG positioning is certainly adequate (if svg renderers
can actually cope with the svg foreign object mechanism to allow mathml
fragments) but is that overkill.... I really don't know the answer to
any of these questions.

David
Received on Saturday, 28 June 2003 17:46:10 GMT

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