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[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2013-03-07

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 07:00:44 +0000
Message-ID: <51398C9C.3070903@w3.org>
To: www International <www-international@w3.org>
http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html





Text version follows:



Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

07 Mar 2013

    [2]Agenda

       [2] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Mar/0012.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Addison, Richard, Felix, John_O, John_K, Mati, Aharon,
           David

    Regrets
    Chair
           Addison Phillips

    Scribe
           aphillip

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Action Items
          2. [6]Info Share
          3. [7]Reviews
          4. [8]What Time is this Meeting At
          5. [9]bidi change proposal
          6. [10]Ruby Use Cases
          7. [11]Charmod-Norm
          8. [12]AOB?
      * [13]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

Action Items

    <r12a> [14]http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

      [14] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

    close action-189

    <trackbot> Closed ACTION-189 Announce ruby note will be
    published as note, last call for next week.

    close action-190

    <trackbot> Closed ACTION-190 Write to contacts and cjk list
    about bopomofo handling as base and as ruby text.

    close action-191

    <trackbot> Closed ACTION-191 Request comments on wiki page
    about bidi change proposal to robin, bidi list, winter list,
    and html.

    close action-192

    <trackbot> Closed ACTION-192 Solicit from input Unicode on
    skipping spaces in css3 text-decoration specifically ethiopic
    word sep, etc..

    close action-193

    <trackbot> Closed ACTION-193 Supply CSS3 with pictures of
    skip-ink for tibetan or khmer.

Info Share

    Norbert: ecmascript

    <Norbert> [15]http://norbertlindenberg.com/ecmascript/intl.html

      [15] http://norbertlindenberg.com/ecmascript/intl.html

    Norbert: published first draft of second edition
    ... adds time zone ids
    ... from tzinfo
    ... can specify language for casing

Reviews

    [16]http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar

      [16] http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar

    [
    [17]http://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/drafts/contacts-manager-api
    ]

      [17] http://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/drafts/contacts-manager-api

    norbert volunteers to shepherd :-)

    HTML+RDFa and XInclude 1.1: no comments

What Time is this Meeting At

    [18]http://www.doodle.com/nzks8wivyfuk84mw#table

      [18] http://www.doodle.com/nzks8wivyfuk84mw#table

    JcK: stick to 1600Z and check for whom this is a problem?

    <scribe> ACTION: addison: poll for heartburn for keeping call
    at 1600Z [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-194 - Poll for heartburn for keeping
    call at 1500Z [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-03-14].

bidi change proposal

    richard: didn't move wiki forward because of discussion of
    ... IE in stds mode is doing isolation
    ... so use case of "old hacks" might not be important?
    ... so crucial question
    ... simplest way to is change semantics of @dir
    ... and that would be easiest
    ... want to discuss that

    aharon: agree with your analysis
    ... did more IE testing
    ... if non-stds mode, does weird stuff
    ... if span with @dir
    ... isolates stuff following
    ... but not preceeding it
    ... so weird
    ... can't say IE has isolation

    <JcK> Having had that scheduling discussion, regrets for next
    week -- IETF meeting conflicts with anything after 1130 UT :-(

    aharon: but can say that currently a lack of interop

    richard: how to decide?
    ... three scenarios
    ... ask HTML WG?

    Norbert: anyone rely on embedding
    ... and how does it work with IE
    ... if no one relies on
    ... then can change

    richard: aharon had examples of it though

    aharon: actually found examples in pages designed for IE7
    ... those pages would have been broken by change in IE

    richard: how many more fixed than broken by change??
    ... so maybe some uplift too

    aharon: probably right thing to to
    ... but don't believe my opinion will carry day

    richard: two items docuemented

    <scribe> ... new @direction

    ... add two new values
    ... and third would be change semantics

    matial: limit damage with semantics change
    ... by giving guidance for using RLM etc
    ... using same markup, so to get same behavior you'd add
    enclosing RLM/LRM

    aharon: new version of article gives that as guidance now

    richard: need to put in front of HTML and CSS
    ... need to edit wiki first
    ... won't get to for two weeks

    <scribe> chair: to look at in two weeks

    aharon: one other thing

    <scribe> ... new attribute values

    ... dependent on using css hack for transition
    ... css-hack doesn't work
    ... for IE7 and earlier
    ... nothing works there
    ... totally ignore (and doesn't show css) any @dir with
    unrecognized values
    ... as if @dir=foo is not even there

    richard: please send me examples for wiki
    ... so can be complete

    aharon: okay

    <r12a> ACTION: Aharon to send Richard notes about IE behaviour
    wrt direction [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-195 - Send Richard notes about IE
    behaviour wrt direction [on Aharon Lanin - due 2013-03-14].

Ruby Use Cases

    [21]http://www.w3.org/International/docs/ruby/Overview2.html#us
    ecased

      [21] http://www.w3.org/International/docs/ruby/Overview2.html#usecased

    richard: started making edits
    ... more I thought about it...
    ... combining new thing with old thing
    ... hypothetical cases were pretty historical
    ... didn't think I'd have time to fix it
    ... but deciced to plunge ahead
    ... much better document (and shorter too)
    ... so have rewritten a lot (most text touched)
    ... so back to needing to review
    ... need wide review

    addison: think this is useful

    Norbert: markup?

    richard: space issue
    ... everyone pretty prints their html for examples
    ... this causes spurious spaces

    Consider the sequence: がつgatsu月. There are no spaces in the
    sequence. You don't want to insert one just because the break
    occurs just before or after "gatsu". However, the opposite case
    can also exist: "The word 月 appears in this sentence." 月 wants
    spaces around it here. It is the layout context that matters
    and this cannot be determined strictly from the characters at
    the line break location.

    doesn't work for Thai either

    richard: should move away from current html5 (another reason)
    ... open/close <rb> tags help

    <r12a>
    [22]http://www.w3.org/International/tests/html-css/white-space/
    results-white-space#wfh

      [22] 
http://www.w3.org/International/tests/html-css/white-space/results-white-space#wfh

    <r12a>
    [23]http://www.w3.org/International/tests/html-css/white-space/
    results-white-space#thai

      [23] 
http://www.w3.org/International/tests/html-css/white-space/results-white-space#thai

    <scribe> ACTION: richard: request fequest feedback on ruby use
    cases with an eye towards publishing updated version in two
    weeks [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-196 - Request fequest feedback on
    ruby use cases with an eye towards publishing updated version
    in two weeks [on Richard Ishida - due 2013-03-14].

    s/two weeks from 7 March from 7 March/

Charmod-Norm

    [25]http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/CharmodNormProposal201
    3

      [25] http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/CharmodNormProposal2013

    [26]http://inter-locale.com/w3c/charmod-norm-1.1-draft.html

      [26] http://inter-locale.com/w3c/charmod-norm-1.1-draft.html

    Norbert: add search cases for user text and user interaction
    with text
    ... rather than identifiers, etc.

    addison: wouldn't affect content authors and wouldn't affect
    specs
    ... but implementatinos of "find" would be

AOB?

    addison: will take css skip spaces next week, will send email
    with the feedback

    <matial> Bye

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: addison: poll for heartburn for keeping call at
    1600Z [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: Aharon to send Richard notes about IE behaviour
    wrt direction [recorded in
    [28]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: richard: request fequest feedback on ruby use
    cases with an eye towards publishing updated version in two
    weeks [recorded in
    [29]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

    [End of minutes]


-- 
Richard Ishida, W3C
http://rishida.net/
Received on Friday, 8 March 2013 07:01:09 GMT

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