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Re: Encoding Standard at F2F

From: 신정식 <jshin1987@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 14:12:55 -0800
Message-ID: <CAE1ONj_KDUQiWCU1vY-gGDL6BYwLZ6OfqBNMZ+2u=bwLYsr+_A@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Ishii, Koji a | Koji | EBJB" <koji.a.ishii@mail.rakuten.com>
Cc: Anne van Kesteren <annevk@annevk.nl>, "www-international@w3.org" <www-international@w3.org>
Let me make clear that I did NOT propose anything to do about ISO-2022-JP.
I'm *very well aware that it's still alive* even though it's increasingly
rare as with any other legacy encodings. ISO-2022-JP has to be kept as it
is now.


On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Ishii, Koji a | Koji | EBJB <
koji.a.ishii@mail.rakuten.com> wrote:

>  I think the spec should cover all relevant technologies around W3C, not
> only the web pages. I know little about how often ISO-2022-KR is used in
> other places than Web, but you should also pay attention to e-mail and
> other careers of W3C technologies.
>

 **
>
> Microsoft once disabled automatic detection of ISO-2022-JP in MS10-090<http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2416400/en-us>for the security concern but turned it on again in
> MS11-003 <http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2482017/en-us> due to its bad
> impact. As you said and as Kuro confirmed, ISO-2022-JP is still an
> important encoding for the W3C to support.****
>
> ** **
>
> Are you sure ISO-2022-KR and GB-HZ are not, considering all places W3C
> technologies are used including e-mail, TV, etc.?****
>
> **
>

ISO-2022-KR is NOT used anywhere on the web. It's been dead for over a
decade even for email exchanges simply because it does not make any sense
to use that when other simpler/better alternatives have been around.

As I wrote in my email, I can be less sure about GB-HZ although the same
can be said of that as about ISO-2022-KR. Anyway, one data point I have is
that nobody complained to Chrome when it didn't support it. If necessary, I
can collect more statistics about its usage.

Jungshik


>  **
>
> ** **
>
> Regards,****
>
> Koji****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Jungshik SHIN (신정식) [mailto:jshin1987@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2012 12:20 PM
> *To:* Anne van Kesteren
> *Cc:* www-international@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: Encoding Standard at F2F****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi,****
>
> Thank you for the note. ****
>
> I wonder what consideration has been given to the inclusion of ISO-2022-KR
> and GB-HZ, two 7-bit encodings that are extremely rare on the web (if used
> at all) and are 'security risks' (in a sense) like other 7-bit encodings
> (e.g. UTF-7 that is not included). ****
>
> We cannot drop ISO-2022-JP lightly because it's still used somewhere even
> though it's much less widely used than EUC-JP or Shift-JIS.  ****
>
> OTOH, ISO-2022-KR has never been meant for the web and it's safe to say
> that virtually no web page uses it. It's designed for emails (RFC 1557) in
> early 1990's and it got out of favor  even for emails in late 1990's
> because either EUC-KR (later UTF-8) with 8bit ESMTP or EUC-KR with
> base64/qp worked just fine. For web pages, there's absolutely no reason to
> use ISO-2022-KR from the beginning and it's not used. ****
>
> For the last 20 years, I've seen web pages (other than test pages) in that
> encoding only once or twice. I'm a Korean speaker and I've visited numerous
> web pages. ****
>
> To a slightly less extent, the same should hold for GB-HZ. It started its
> life to use in Usenet (and email), but using that on the web does not make
> much sense. I can't say about GB-HZ as strongly as about ISO-2022-KR, but
> my experience with Chrome development (below) is an indication that it's
> virtually unused. ****
>
> Chrome didn't support either of them until about 2 years ago. They're
> added mainly because of http://encoding.spec.whatwg.org/  IIRC.  When
> neither is supported, I haven't had any complaint from Chrome users. ****
>
> Jungshik ****
>
> ** **
>
> 2012. 11. 3. 오전 7:31에 "Anne van Kesteren" <annevk@annevk.nl>님이 작성:****
>
> I joined the I18N WG for an hour or so at their F2F in TPAC to discuss
> http://encoding.spec.whatwg.org/
>
> We basically went through the document for a high-level overview of
> what it attempts to do. We also concluded it is good enough to publish
> as a FPWD, provided someone in the I18N WG has the time to do the
> switch in style (from green to blue).
>
> Based on feedback from Richard Ishida and Kawabata Taichi during that
> meeting I filed these bugs:
>
> * https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19816
> * https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19817
>
> If there was any other feedback during that session I failed to
> capture I would appreciate if you could help me out. Issues with the
> specification are best recorded in Bugzilla:
>
> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=WHATWG&component=Encoding
>
>
> --
> http://annevankesteren.nl/****
>
Received on Sunday, 4 November 2012 22:13:23 GMT

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