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RE: Something like xml:dir

From: CE Whitehead <cewcathar@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:54:06 -0400
Message-ID: <SNT142-w35D24483E9AD52F48C98A8B3430@phx.gbl>
To: <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>, <jackalmage@gmail.com>
CC: <cowan@ccil.org>, <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>, <www-style@w3.org>, <www-international@w3.org>

> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 18:26:42 +0900
> From: duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp
> To: jackalmage@gmail.com
> CC: cowan@ccil.org; fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net; www-style@w3.org; www-international@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Something like xml:dir
> On 2010/10/27 1:47, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote:
>> On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 10:43 PM, "Martin J. Dürst"
>> wrote:
>>> Another concern is that for bidi attributes in HTML, there is a default
>>> stylesheet. So would we need a default stylesheet for XML to cover something
>>> like xml:dir?
>> No; bidi rendering *should* occur solely in the rendering engine, and
>> shouldn't be exposed to CSS at all; this is not a styling issue any
>> more than "should I interpret this text as unicode or ascii?" is. The
>> CSS support for the bidi attributes was solely so that XML languages
>> could define their own bidi attributes and get them to respond
>> correctly in a CSS-based processor.
> Almost correct. But when this was designed, we also thought about use
> cases where it makes sense to change the CSS. Let's say I have some
> hebrew or arabic data, but apply a stylesheet that sets a font that has
> glyphs that look like Latin, which will give me a (at least crude)
> transliteration. To actually be able to read this, I'd better also
> change the bidirectionality properties. With the current CSS, I can do this.
I tend to agree with Tab Atkins that this is not that important a use case. Directionality should be declarable as html or xml attributes and all browsers and other applications should support these attributes. However . . . this does not mean that I favor obsoleting the css declarations for directionality -- you have made your point below that these should exist for a specialized DTD case.


--C. E. Whitehead
>> If XML supports directionality annotations natively, then the use-case
>> for CSS directional properties disappears. We of course can't get rid
>> of the properties now,
> Definitely not.
>> but we can obsolete them,
> That would require that all XML formats that currently have their own
> bidi attributes get obsoleted, too. It would also mean that any XML
> format that for one reason or another wants to take a different approach
> to bidirectionality than the newly introduced xml:... attributes can't
> do that (one can easily imagine a specialized DTD for Arabic poems with
> English commentary where both language and directionality can be derived
> from the element names).
> Regards, Martin.
>> and avoid carrying
>> them into future drafts (keeping them as just a CSS2.1 quirk) or
>> expanding their functionality.
> --
> #-# Martin J. Dürst, Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University
> #-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp
Received on Wednesday, 27 October 2010 20:54:45 UTC

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