W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-international@w3.org > July to September 2009

Re: Comments on Best Practices for Authoring HTML: RTL Scripts (Editorial comments only; was "Comments on Best Practices for Authoring HTML: RTL Scripts")

From: CE Whitehead <cewcathar@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:49:56 -0400
Message-ID: <BLU109-W3A796EE141E79CDC23651B3180@phx.gbl>
To: <www-international@w3.org>
CC: <ishida@w3.org>



Hi!  Although I found proofreading errors in Section I, I have not found any errors in punctuation, spelling, etc. in sections 2, 3, 4, 5, 6; I did find a few such errors in sections 7 and 8 (I've now read through section 8, Best Practice 10.  I may have a few comments on the content too, but I'll send these separately).
 
(Sorry for sending these in piecemeal; do you prefer these editorial comments for the whole document at once or is it o.k. to send these comments to you "piecemeal," as I've been doing??)
 

(Following are editorial comments on Sections 7 and 8 of
http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-html-tech-bidi/)
 
* * *
 
Section 7, BP 8,  "DISCUSSION," Par 1, 1rst sentence
 
{COMMENT:  I guess "quote" has migrated to 'nounhood' (according to www.wordreference.com ) but I learned that "quotation" was the noun and "quote" the verb; I'd prefer "quotation" here.}
 
"This best practice is useful where nested, inline text, such as a quote, is bidirectional."
 
>
 
"This best practice is useful where nested, inline text, such as a quotation, is bidirectional."
 
* * *
Section 7, BP 8, "DISCUSSION," Par 2, 2nd sentence
 
{COMMENT:  Change "is" to "be" at least in U.S. English (don't know about B.E.) We still require the present subjunctive "be" here in U.S. English}
 
"It is recommended that markup is used . . . "
 
>
 
"It is recommended that markup be used . . . "
 
* * *
 
Section 7, BP 8, Example 11

{COMMENT I'm having problems with the placement of the comma here--should it be adjacent to the word W3C, or should it follow the Hebrew words, "Internationalization Activity??"  (The direction that the comma is pointing in this example is confusing!)  See also my comments on Example 16, below.}
 
* * *
 
Section 7, BP 8, "DISCUSSION: Using Markup," Par 2, 2nd sentence
 
{COMMENT:  Insert "that" after "and" }
 
"It is possible that the embedded text is not surrounded by markup, and you may need to add it . . ."
 
>
 
"It is possible that the embedded text is not surrounded by markup, and that you may need to add it . . ."
 
* * * 
  
Section 8, BP 10, Example 16
 
{COMMENT:  Again as with Example 11, I am having problems with the comma; where you've placed it is not right!  The comma should immediately follow 'al-Bh.riin (going from right to left)!  And it should be turned a different direction.  The white space thus comes to the left of the comma not to the right.}
 
* * *
Section 8, BP 10, Par 3, 1rst sentence
 
{COMMENT:  run-on sentence; 
Change the first comma (,) to a full-stop (.) and begin a new sentence with "because."}
 
"Whereas Example 16 shows a case that occurs only rarely in English, because of the likelihood of foreign text showing up in languages written with the Arabic or Hebrew scripts, this situation is much more common when writing in those languages. Example 17 shows a typical case."
 
>
 
"Whereas Example 16 shows a case that occurs only rarely in English.  Because of the likelihood of foreign text showing up in languages written with the Arabic or Hebrew scripts, this situation is much more common when writing in those languages. Example 17 shows a typical case."
 
* * *
Section 8, BP 10, Example 18, Par 1, 2nd sentence
 
{COMMENT:  the following text is fine--excellent style; NO CHANGE needed; though we just got into a long discussion about whether to use the possessive pronoun and treat the -ing verb ["being"] as a gerund in such cases, I feel doing so would not quite sound like modern English.|

"This leads to them being displayed the wrong way round."

 
Best,

--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar@hotmail.com 
 

 







From: cewcathar@hotmail.com
To: ishida@w3.org; www-international@w3.org
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 17:28:59 -0400
Subject: RE: Comments on Best Practices for Authoring HTML: RTL scripts



Hi.
 
I've so far got a few comments on the English grammar and punctuation in the introductory part and section 1 -- if you are taking those at this point (I've read through section 3 only however).
 
"Status of this Document" 
par 2, last sentence
{COMMENT:  INSERT "in"}
 
". . . fragments of text these scripts"
>
". . . fragments of text in these scripts"
 
* * *
"Introduction"
1.1 par 1, first 'sentence'
". . . localized to a language . . . "
 
{COMMENT:  ??I guess that's o.k.  (I want to say "localized in a language" but o.k. I think your terminology is right; I don't use the 'jargon' yet.)}
 
* * *
1.2.1 par 1, third sentence
 
{COMMENT:  change "they" to "the" and delete either "see" or "read"}
 
" . . . they way you see read . . . "
 
>
 
 
" . . . the way you see [or  "read"--but not both] . . . " 
 
* * *
1.2.3 last paragraph
 
{COMMENT:  I'd put commas around the name of the link}
 
>
". . . follow the link, 'Check for browser-specific notes,' after each best practice."
 
* * *
1.4 "inline element," 2nd sentence
 
{COMMENT:  change first "block" to "inline"}
 
"The opposite of a block element . . . "
 
>
 
"The opposite of an inline element . . . "
 
* * *
 
 
One comment on the content
 
2.2 Can you mention here that the relationship is between the script and directionalit??  It's sort of understood but . . .
 
Thanks,
 
C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar@hotmail.com 

 
> From: ishida@w3.org
> To: ms2ger@gmail.com
> CC: www-international@w3.org
> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:32:56 +0100
> Subject: RE: Comments on Best Practices for Authoring HTML: RTL scripts
> 
> Thanks for this useful feedback. Notes below...
> 
> ============
> Richard Ishida
> Internationalization Lead
> W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)
> 
> http://www.w3.org/International/
> http://rishida.net/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: www-international-request@w3.org [mailto:www-international-
> > request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Ms2ger
> > Sent: 15 July 2009 18:52
> > To: www-international@w3.org
> > Subject: Comments on Best Practices for Authoring HTML: RTL scripts
> > 
> > Dear
> > 
> > I have a few comments on the /Best Practices for Authoring HTML:
> > Handling Right-to-left Scripts/ Working Draft of 14 July 2009. [1]
> > 
> > BP 1, Examples 6 and 7: I find it unfortunate that the presentational id
> > |rightjustified| and class |clearleft| are suggested as "best practice".
> > It would be better to suggest picking ids and classes based on the
> > meaning of the markup, rather than the (at this time) preferred
> > presentation. (See [2] for example.)
> 
> I totally agree that semantic names should be chosen for class names whenever possible. I think this will mean creating more complicated examples, but I will do so. You're right that the over-simplistic examples currently used are not good.
> 
> > 
> > BP 3, Example 8:
> > 
> > > <html dir="rtl" lang="ar" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
> > 
> > As this looks like an XHTML document, I believe the attribute
> > |xml:lang=""| would be more appropriate.
> 
> Ah, thanks for drawing my attention to that. I converted the visible example text to HTML from the original XHTML before publishing, and I forgot to remove the xmlns in this example. I'll remove it.
> 
> > 
> > BP 6, Example 9:
> > 
> > > <blockquote dir="ltr" lang="en" cite="Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2)">But,
> > soft! What light through yonder window breaks? It is the east, and Juliet is the
> > sun.</blockquote>
> > 
> > This snippet is incorrect HTML for two reasons: it uses |cite=""|
> > incorrectly—the value should be a URI, and the contents of a
> > /block/quote must be blocks. A more correct version would be
> > 
> > > <blockquote dir="ltr" lang="en"><p>But, soft! What light through yonder
> > window breaks? It is the east, and Juliet is the sun.</p></blockquote>
> > 
> 
> You're right. I'll change it.
> 
> 
> 
> > Hoping these comments will help to improve the draft
> 
> Very useful. Thanks!
> 
> RI
> 
> 
> > Ms2ger
> > 
> > [1] <http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-i18n-html-tech-bidi-20090714/>
> > [2] <http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/goodclassnames>
> 
> 
> 
Received on Thursday, 23 July 2009 22:50:37 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Thursday, 23 July 2009 22:50:38 GMT