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RE: Armenian numbering: findings, recommendations and request to CSS WG

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:30:11 -0000
To: "'fantasai'" <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
Cc: <www-style@w3.org>, <www-international@w3.org>
Message-ID: <001701c98c44$7c0be970$7423bc50$@org>

Hi Elika,

Many thanks for moving this forward.

I think you need to remove "U+0571 U+0302" from the beginning of the example of 2951.  (Very tiny nit: I'd put a comma after the digit 2, to make it easier to read.)

Btw, another nit, I find the styling of paragraphs a little odd.  Because most of the paragraphs I looked at just now were small single sentences, it took a while for me to realise that the indentation was just to indicate the start of a new paragraph, rather than having some other meaning.  I actually checked the code for clues, before it dawned on me.

Wrt " There are two letters for 10,000 and 20,000 (U+0555 and U+0556 respectively), but whether and how they should be used is unclear.", I think there are two options:

1. leave it out, since we now only specify numbering up to 9,999.

2. leave it in, as a note, but add information to say that numbers over 9,999 tend to be indicated using an (as yet undefined) combining character, but sometimes one of the two characters mentioned here are used for 10,000 and 20,000 respectively.  I could do some wording if you like.

In the latter case, I think the text should be moved to the section on lower-armenian, since that's where the algorithm is described.  I'm not aware that this applies only to upper-armenian.

Another v small nitty suggestion: " The suffix for the armenian numbering system is a dot . U+002E."  May be better to say, "... is U+002E   FULL STOP.", so that it's more immediately clear in the text what character we're dealing with. 

Hope that helps,
RI

============
Richard Ishida
Internationalization Lead
W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)

http://www.w3.org/International/
http://rishida.net/


> -----Original Message-----
> From: fantasai [mailto:fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net]
> Sent: 10 February 2009 22:34
> To: Richard Ishida
> Cc: www-style@w3.org; www-international@w3.org; unicode@unicode.org;
> kode@hotbox.ru
> Subject: Re: Armenian numbering: findings, recommendations and request to
> CSS WG
> 
> Richard Ishida wrote:
> > RECOMMENDATIONS
> >
> > Change CSS3 text so say one of the following:
> > 1.	armenian is a synonym of upper-armenian
> > 2.	the case of list-style-type: armenian is implementation-defined
> >
> > I would recommend that IE8 use upper-case to conform to the behaviour
> of all
> > other major browsers tested.
> >
> > Change the CSS3 text to say one of the following:
> > 1.	7000 is represented by Ւ U+0552 ARMENIAN CAPITAL LETTER YIWN
> > 2.	7000 is typically represented by Ւ U+0552 ARMENIAN CAPITAL
> LETTER YIWN
> >       but some implementations may prefer to use ՈՒ (U+0548 U+0552),
> noting
> >       that this involves potential for ambiguity
> >
> > I would recommend that IE8 use the single character, in line with Firefox
> and Opera.
> >
> > Change the CSS3 text to say one of the following:
> > 1.	armenian numbering is only defined in this specification as far as
> 9,999.
> >       Beyond that the representation is implementation-defined.
> > 2.	armenian numbering is only defined in this specification as far as
> 9,999.
> >       Higher numbers will be defined in a later version of the specification.
> >
> > I'm not sure what to recommend to IE8.
> >
> > I would recommend that all browsers consider implementing upper-
> armenian and
> > lower-armenian to provide Armenian users with a choice.
> 
> Hello Richard, www-international, and unicode-ml,
> 
> I have, with smontagu's help, updated the CSS Working Group's internal
> Editor's
> Draft to
>    - use U+0552/U+0582 for 7000
>    - limit the Armenian numbering system to 9999
> as you recommended. Please review those changes, they are visible here:
>    http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-lists/#upper-armenian
>    http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-lists/#lower-armenian
>    diff @ http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/csswg/css3-
> lists/Overview.src.html.diff?r1=1.3&r2=1.7
>    colored diff @ http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/csswg/css3-
> lists/Overview.src.html.diff?r1=1.3&r2=1.7&f=h
> 
> The CSS Working Group will discuss the appropriate synonym mapping for
> the
> 'armenian' keyword, and we will post our resolution to www-style.
> 
> Thank you for your investigation and feedback,
> ~fantasai
Received on Wednesday, 11 February 2009 12:30:24 GMT

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