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Re: Ideographic Space, word-spacing, and justification

From: KOBAYASHI Tatsuo(FAMILY Given) <tlk@kobysh.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 05:42:47 +0900
Message-ID: <352eabf80810301342j8a4bd85nd8569b87c60db399@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Steve Deach" <sdeach@adobe.com>
Cc: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>, "WWW International" <www-international@w3.org>, "Paul Nelson" <paulnel@winse.microsoft.com>, "Michel Suignard" <michel@unicode.org>
Erica,

Kobayashi-sensei gave me additional information on U+3000.
Following is a brief summary.

In our Japanese Requirement, IDEOGRAPHIC SPACE is only explicitly used as
space after [?] and [!].

IDEOGRAPHIC SPACE does not behave as spaces before and after ideographic
punctuation characters.

In justification process with expansion method, when too many Han characters
and Kana characters are in a row, i.e. there are seldom place to be
expanded, IDEOGRAPHIC SPACE can be expanded, however the priority is lowest.


If you have further questions, do not hesitate to raise.

regards,
Tatsuo.


2008/10/30 KOBAYASHI Tatsuo(FAMILY Given) <tlk@kobysh.com>

> Hi, Erica,
>
> In Japanese Layout, "spacing issue" is one of the most difficult issues to
> treat.
> We intended to carefully eliminate concrete character name like IDEOGRAPHIC
> SPACE(U+3000) and SPACE(U+0002) from our requirement. Rather introduced
> three different types of abstract space concepts as follows:
>
> inter character space: usulal 1/2 em fixed space.
> conditional space: 1/2 em fixed space to be inserted or pulled off between
> characters and punctuation marks.
> adjustable space: variable width space, behaves like usual western variable
> space.
>
> Note that, usual Japanese punctuation marks have 1/2 em width in our
> requirement, even if the character name might include "FULLWIDTH ~~~"
>
> Anyway, the disition how to deal with these spaces in CSS recommendation
> and in actual implementation is up to your side:-)
>
> regards,
> Tatsuo
>
> 2008/10/30 Steve Deach <sdeach@adobe.com>
>
>
>> No, in my personal opinion, it should not.
>> The 2 differences between normal space/nbsp vs ideographic space are:
>>  1.) The normal width is different, and
>>  2.) The normal space/nbsp is treated as justifying
>>      (adjusted by both wordspacing and letterspacing),
>>      whereas the Ideographic space should only be adjusted by
>>      letterspacing (only if ideographic letters are also so adjusted).
>>
>> However, I will re-confirm this with our CJK experts, before claiming this
>> is an Adobe opinion.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2008.10.29 15:13, "fantasai" <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > The CSSWG would like to know whether the IDEOGRAPHIC SPACE U+3000
>> > should be affected by 'word-spacing', and whether it should be
>> > treated as a space during spaces-only justification or treated as
>> > a typical ideographic punctuation character.
>> >
>> > ~fantasai
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> KOBAYASHI Tatsuo
> Scholex Co., Ltd. Yokohama
> JUSTSYSTEM Digital Culture Research Center
>



-- 
KOBAYASHI Tatsuo(小林龍生)
Scholex Co., Ltd. Yokohama
JUSTSYSTEM Digital Culture Research Center
Received on Thursday, 30 October 2008 20:43:26 GMT

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