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Re: 2 many language tags for Norwegian

From: John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:23:36 -0400
To: Leif Halvard Silli <lhs@malform.no>
Cc: John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org>, www-international@w3.org
Message-ID: <20080425142336.GD32024@mercury.ccil.org>

Leif Halvard Silli scripsit:

>    * The reason why Google uses 'no' for 'nb', instad of 'nb' for 'nb',
>      is not the one you mention.

How do you know this?

Employees of both Google and Yahoo made such comments on LTRU WG telcons.

> When Norwegians themselves, and messages I get from forreigners trying 
> to understand the Norwegian codes, show that they are not understood, 
> what shall we do then? Be held hostage of U.N. Statistics Division, who 
> has developed those codes for entirely other purposes?

The alternatives are: use the somewhat inappropriate ISO 3166 standard,
with its dependence on distinctions that are partly political and
partly economic; or develop our own, and immediately get caught up in
a never-ending debate.

> Or perhaps Norwegian should be considerd a "Macro languge",  

That is so in ISO 639-3.

> and extended-language tags be taken into use to denote each variant? The 
> 'no-bok' and 'no-nyn' fits perfectly in to that picture, don't they? 

In a very hard-fought decision, LTRU decided not to go forward with
extended language subtags, but to use ISO 639-3 code elements directly
as language subtags for all languages.

> BCP 47 now says that nb and nn are preferred and that they "replaced" 
> no-nyn and no-bok.

Preferred, yes.  But once a tag is valid, it remains valid forever in
the same meaning: that's a basic rule of BCP 47.

> But if it is as you say, then I would like to propose that 'no-nyn' and 
> 'no-bok' was made the preferred codes.

At the moment, ietf-languages doesn't have the authority to prefer
an older (and irregular) tag to a newer ISO equivalents when it
becomes available.  If you want to change that, post to ltru@ietf.org;
this is about the last possible moment to do so.  Note that you need
to propose actual text (you can find the current editorial draft at
http://inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-13.html ) and you
need to speak to the *general* issue of allowing ietf-languages to decide
whether an existing tag should be preferred to a new one, something they
currently have no discretion on.

John  Cowan  http://ccil.org/~cowan   cowan@ccil.org
'My young friend, if you do not now, immediately and instantly, pull
as hard as ever you can, it is my opinion that your acquaintance in the
large-pattern leather ulster' (and by this he meant the Crocodile) 'will
jerk you into yonder limpid stream before you can say Jack Robinson.'
        --the Bi-Coloured-Python-Rock-Snake
Received on Friday, 25 April 2008 14:24:25 UTC

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