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RE: Comment on working draft "Specifying Language in XHTML and HTML Content"

From: CE Whitehead <cewcathar@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 11:42:17 -0400
Message-ID: <BAY114-F18070800B160B29AF37E43B3690@phx.gbl>
To: ishida@w3.org
Cc: www-international@w3.org

Yes, thanks for the URL again for the current draft--you have mentioned it 
before.
It is the current draft I am commenting on;
somehow the wrong url ended up in the top of my document of comments, my 
apologies;
that has been corrected (as I have not looked at the old version in ages, I 
do not know how it got there; I had worked on the summer, 2006 version and 
then got the current URL; sorry)

here is the link to my comments again (the formatting has been improved)
http://www.geocities.com/quaiouestenglish/w3c/CommentsonInternationalization.html

also I've put the comments below (if they are of any use; some are just 
picky proofreading, but you might find some useful):

* * *

Comments on: "Internationalization Best Practices: Specifying Language in 
XHTML & HTML Content" 
(http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-lang.html#ri20050208.095812479/)

    * Section 3
          o Section 3.1 par 4

            {NOTE: Below par 4 you might discuss the language code:

            mul

            which might be used audience language only, and only under 
certain circumstances: (but I would never recommend it for text-processing 
language!--see note below:}
            "There are also pages where the navigational information, 
including the page title, is in one language but the real content of the 
page is in another. While this is not necessarily good practice, it doesn't 
change the fact that the language of the intended audience is usually that 
of the content, regardless of the language at the top of the document 
source."

            {ADD ??}
            > "A case where the audience and text processing languages 
differ slightly is an online foreign language lesson, written in a single 
language (immersion) but aimed at speakers of multiple languages; for 
example, the text-processing language might be only:

            fr

            (or only en , or only ar), while the audience language might be 
declared as:

            mul (multiple)

            or as both:

            mul, fr

            (since presumably the audience speaks some French)."
    * Section 5
          o Best Practice 1, "Note"

            "rather than an attribute on the html element"

            > "rather than attribute[s] on the html element"

            {COMMENT: there's more than one attribute sometimes, as both the 
lang and xml:lang attributes may be used.}
          o Best Practice 1, Par 8/9 (last Par before Background 
Information/Resources)

            "The relevance will depend on the structure used for the 
document."

            {COMMENT: "relevance" is confusing. Do you mean "usefulness" or 
"effectiveness," or do you mean "location>"}
          o ??? Best Practice 2 "Discussion" par 3

            "Although we would normally recommended to declare the default 
text-processing language in the html tag, since only one language can be 
defined at a time when using attributes, there may appear to be little point 
in doing so if a document has separate content to support multilingual 
audiences. It may be more appropriate to begin labeling the language on 
lower level elements, where the actual text is in one language or another."
            {add to the end??}

            > ", and to just specify the character set in the html tag."

            {COMMENT: I'm new to some of this, you can declare the character 
set in the document type declaration and you can declare it in the meta tags 
can you declare it without a language tag such as en or mul??? SORRY!!}
          o Best Practice 4: Identifying changes in language within the 
document, "How to", par 2/3 ???

            "The lang attribute can be used on all HTML elements . . . "

            > "The lang and xml:lang attributes can be used on all . . . "

            {COMMENT: There is no mention of the xml: lang attribute in this 
paragraph. though not only can it can be used on all HTML elements; it is 
also used on XML elements.}

Sincerely,

C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar@hotmail.com

>
>As I mentioned before, the version of this document at
>http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-i18n-html-tech-lang-20050224/ is well out of
>date, and the current edit version is at
>http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-lang.html .  Please
>comment on the current edit version only.
>
>Thank you.
>RI
>
>============
>Richard Ishida
>Internationalization Lead
>W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)
>
>http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/
>http://www.w3.org/International/
>http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: CE Whitehead [mailto:cewcathar@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: 23 March 2007 18:53
> > To: cewcathar@hotmail.com
> > Cc: ishida@w3.org; www-international@w3.org
> > Subject: Re: Comment on working draft "Specifying Language in
> > XHTML and HTML Content"
> >
> > Hi,  my comments that I sent before because they were
> > confusing; here they are again;
> >
> > (I put my comments online too
> > http://www.geocities.com/quaiouestenglish/w3c/CommentsonIntern
> > ationalization.html
> > )
> >
> >
> > Comments on: "Internationalization Best Practices: Specifying
> > Language in
> > XHTML & HTML Content"
> > (http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-i18n-html-tech-lang-20050224/)
> >
> >     * Section 3
> >           o Section 3.1 par 4 {NOTE: Below par 4 you might
> > discuss the
> > language code:
> >
> >             mul
> >             which might be used audience language only, and
> > only under
> > certain circumstances: (but I would never recommend it for
> > text-processing
> > language!--see note below:} "There are also pages where the
> > navigational
> > information, including the page title, is in one language but
> > the real
> > content of the page is in another. While this is not necessarily good
> > practice, it doesn't change the fact that the language of the
> > intended
> > audience is usually that of the content, regardless of the
> > language at the
> > top of the document source."
> >
> >             {ADD ??}
> >
> >             > "A case where the audience and text processing
> > languages
> > differ slightly is an online foreign language lesson, written
> > in a single
> > language (immersion) but aimed at speakers of multiple languages; for
> > example, the text-processing language might be only:
> >
> >             fr
> >
> >             (or only en , or only ar), while the audience
> > language might be
> > declared as:
> >
> >             mul (multiple)
> >
> >             or as both:
> >
> >             mul, fr
> >
> >             (since presumably the audience speaks some French)."
> >     * Section 5
> >           o Best Practice 1, "Note"
> >
> >             "rather than an attribute on the html element"
> >
> >             > "rather than attribute[s] on the html element"
> >
> >             {COMMENT: there's more than one attribute
> > sometimes, as both the
> > lang and xml:lang attributes may be used.}
> >           o Best Practice 1, Par 8/9 (last Par before Background
> > Information/Resources)
> >
> >             "The relevance will depend on the structure used for the
> > document."
> >
> >             {COMMENT: "relevance" is confusing. Do you mean
> > "usefulness" or
> > "effectiveness," or do you mean "location"?}
> >           o ??? Best Practice 2 "Discussion" par 3
> >
> >             "Although we would normally recommended to
> > declare the default
> > text-processing language in the html tag, since only one
> > language can be
> > defined at a time when using attributes, there may appear to
> > be little point
> > in doing so if a document has separate content to support
> > multilingual
> > audiences. It may be more appropriate to begin labeling the
> > language on
> > lower level elements, where the actual text is in one
> > language or another."
> >             {add to the end??}
> >
> >             > ", and to just specify the character set in the
> > html tag."
> >
> >             {COMMENT: I'm new to some of this, you can
> > declare the character
> > set in the document type declaration and you can declare it
> > in the meta tags
> > can you declare it without a language tag such as en or
> > mul??? SORRY!!}
> >           o Best Practice 4: Identifying changes in language
> > within the
> > document, "How to", par 2/3 ???
> >
> >             "The lang attribute can be used on all HTML
> > elements . . . "
> >
> >             > "The lang and xml:lang attributes can be used
> > on all . . . "
> >
> >             {COMMENT: There is no mention of the xml: lang
> > attribute in this
> > paragraph. though not only can it can be used on all HTML
> > elements; it is
> > also used on XML elements.}
> >
> >
> > (I am still working on the French translation (sections 5 on,
> > as I think we
> > got feedback on the first part--
> > and may have more--
> > but if anyone wants to translate sections 6-8 into French for
> > the purpose of
> > getting comments, that would be great too as I may not get it
> > done that
> > fast; have other things to do; sorry; it's summer and not
> > that shady here
> > for the kitty who likes to sit in the car when I'm at the library)
> >
> > --C. E. Whitehead
> > cewcathar@hotmail.com
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
> > http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hme
>mailtaglinemarch07
> >
>
>

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Received on Saturday, 24 March 2007 15:42:22 GMT

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