W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-international@w3.org > January to March 2007

RE: Comment on working draft "Specifying Language in XHTML and HTML Content"

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 19:53:30 -0000
To: "'CE Whitehead'" <cewcathar@hotmail.com>
Cc: <www-international@w3.org>
Message-ID: <01ef01c764e0$1c754d90$6401a8c0@rishida>

Mr Whitehead, please read
http://www.w3.org/International/articles/inline-bidi-markup/ for information
about how the bidirectional algorithm and markup work together.

RI

============
Richard Ishida
Internationalization Lead
W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)
 
http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/
http://www.w3.org/International/
http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/
 
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: www-international-request@w3.org 
> [mailto:www-international-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of CE Whitehead
> Sent: 11 March 2007 19:50
> To: rosennej@qsm.co.il; www-international@w3.org
> Subject: RE: Comment on working draft "Specifying Language in 
> XHTML and HTML Content"
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >
> Hi, regarding the suggestion to change Azerbaijani, generally 
> language codes are two-letter; some are three-letter; 
> otherwise you'd have a variant and I would not think a 
> variant would be appropriate, but anyway, this discussion 
> belongs on another list.
> 
> (Sorry.)
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I think Azerbaijani is coded az:
> > >
> > > Type: language
> > > Subtag: az
> > > Description: Azerbaijani
> > > Added: 2005-10-16
> > >
> > > (http://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry)
> >
> >Yes, it does say so, but it seems to be a mistake. I believe 
> we should 
> >ask the people concerned what is their preference. I have 
> submitted the 
> >question to CLDR.
> >
> >See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijanis
> >
> >The French locale has azéri
> >
> >http://unicode.org/cldr/apps/survey?_=fr&x=languages&skip=80#
Unconfirme
> >d
> >
> > >
> > > As for numerals in Arabic, they do run left-to-right as 
> they do in 
> > > English, while Arabic text runs right-to-left.
> > >
> > > according to the document below, the numbers do not automatically 
> > > get displayed properly:
> > > http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-css3-text-20030226/#Progression
> > > .date {writing-mode: lr-tb;}
> > > <span class="date">1996</span>
> > >
> > > I'll have to let someone else speak more on numerals 
> embedded in non 
> > > left-to-right scripts.
> 
> 
> >
> >"Note: Even when the inline-progression is left-to-right or 
> >right-to-left, some or all of the content within a given 
> element might 
> >advance in the opposite direction because of the Unicode [UNICODE] 
> >bidirectional algorithm or because of explicit text advance 
> overrides 
> >due to this property or 'direction' and 'unicode-bidi'. "
> 
> >
> >For numbers, the inversion is implicit.
> 
> (Is the inversion implicit ?? When you type on an Arabic 
> typewriter, I guess you start typing numerals beginning with 
> the 1's, then the 10's, then the 100's--I've never typed 
> numerals on an Arabic typewriter though [a poem once I typed, 
> that was written by al-Khansa, that I found in Arberry, and 
> that I needed to markup.])
> 
> I'm really a novice at the rules for when you have to specify 
> directionality as it's implicit if the language is English or 
> French; but numerals in both English and the computer world 
> normally are thought of as running from the big numbers, 
> 1000's, then 100's, then 10's, then 1's, say, that is, from 
> left-to-right, and Arabic runs right-to-left.
> 
> If you've specified the language as Arabic you have reversed 
> the directionality.
> 
> So I do not know.
> 
> (It might be nice to have directionality for numerals 
> implicit, but . . . if I used numbers more often in my texts 
> maybe I'd have more to say on this; thanks so very very much. )
> 
> Let's wait to see if Richard Ishida has anything to add to 
> this discussion here.
> >
> >Jony
> >
> > >
> > > (I'm really still pretty novice, I think.)
> > >
> > > --C. E. Whitehead
> > > cewcathar@hotmail.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Clause 3.3 Relationships between language, character 
> encoding and 
> > > >directionality
> > > >
> > > >The 4th paragraph is misleading. One might get the
> > > impression that bidi
> > > >tags
> > > >are required for numbers. I suggest that the second sentence
> > > be deleted.
> > > >
> > > >"Similarly" in the 5th paragraph is not very clear. 
> Similar to what?
> > > >And shouldn't it be "Azeri"?
> > > >
> > > >Clause 4.2 Attributes or metadata?
> > > >
> > > >I would like to add that often the author is not able to control 
> > > >the metadata. It is handled by the server, and in any large 
> > > >organization the bureaucratic obstacles make it too 
> difficult for 
> > > >most authors to manage, even if they are aware of it, 
> which they may not be.
> 
> You can easily write something in the meta  element 
> specifying the content language if you write in html; in 
> addition many applications will insert a content language now 
> and you have the option of setting that just as you do in 
> Word (though Word does not produce the nicest html markup; it 
> depends what you want).
> 
> Otherwise, yes you have to go into the source code to insert 
> the text processing language for the document.  (the most 
> important one to set it seems may be the language in the html tag).
> You have to have access to server settings if you want to set 
> the language in the headers that the server puts on.
> 
> That's basically what that draft says.
> 
> (It is very easy to get convoluted when you write something 
> long, as I should know, and that is my main criticism of that 
> draft, it gets a bit convoluted here and there)
> > > >
> > > >Jony
> > > >
> >
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Rates near 39yr lows!  $430K Loan for $1,399/mo - Paying Too 
> Much? Calculate new payment
> http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-18
226&moid=7581
> 
> 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/718 - Release Date: 11/03/2007
09:27
 
Received on Monday, 12 March 2007 19:54:23 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Tuesday, 2 June 2009 19:17:09 GMT