W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-international@w3.org > January to March 2007

RE: Comment on working draft "Specifying Language in XHTML and HTML Content"

From: CE Whitehead <cewcathar@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 14:50:22 -0500
Message-ID: <BAY114-F24E3F363F9C493D379545FB37E0@phx.gbl>
To: rosennej@qsm.co.il, www-international@w3.org

Hi, regarding the suggestion to change Azerbaijani, generally language codes 
are two-letter; some are three-letter; otherwise you'd have a variant and I 
would not think a variant would be appropriate, but anyway,
this discussion belongs on another list.

> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I think Azerbaijani is coded az:
> >
> > Type: language
> > Subtag: az
> > Description: Azerbaijani
> > Added: 2005-10-16
> >
> > (http://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry)
>Yes, it does say so, but it seems to be a mistake. I believe we should ask
>the people concerned what is their preference. I have submitted the 
>to CLDR.
>See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijanis
>The French locale has azéri
> >
> > As for numerals in Arabic, they do run left-to-right
> > as they do in English,
> > while Arabic text runs right-to-left.
> >
> > according to the document below, the numbers do not automatically get
> > displayed properly:
> > http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-css3-text-20030226/#Progression
> > .date {writing-mode: lr-tb;}
> > <span class="date">1996</span>
> >
> > I'll have to let someone else speak more on numerals embedded in non
> > left-to-right scripts.

>"Note: Even when the inline-progression is left-to-right or right-to-left,
>some or all of the content within a given element might advance in the
>opposite direction because of the Unicode [UNICODE] bidirectional algorithm
>or because of explicit text advance overrides due to this property or
>'direction' and 'unicode-bidi'. "

>For numbers, the inversion is implicit.

(Is the inversion implicit ?? When you type on an Arabic typewriter, I guess 
you start typing numerals beginning with the 1's, then the 10's, then the 
100's--I've never typed numerals on an Arabic typewriter though
[a poem once I typed, that was written by al-Khansa, that I found in 
Arberry, and that I needed to markup.])

I'm really a novice at the rules for when you have to specify directionality 
as it's implicit if the language is English or French; but numerals in both 
English and the computer world normally are thought of as running from the 
big numbers, 1000's, then 100's, then 10's, then 1's, say, that is, from 
left-to-right, and Arabic runs right-to-left.

If you've specified the language as Arabic you have reversed the 

So I do not know.

(It might be nice to have directionality for numerals implicit, but . . . if 
I used numbers more often in my texts maybe I'd have more to say on this;
thanks so very very much. )

Let's wait to see if Richard Ishida has anything to add to this discussion 
> >
> > (I'm really still pretty novice, I think.)
> >
> > --C. E. Whitehead
> > cewcathar@hotmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > >Clause 3.3 Relationships between language, character encoding and
> > >directionality
> > >
> > >The 4th paragraph is misleading. One might get the
> > impression that bidi
> > >tags
> > >are required for numbers. I suggest that the second sentence
> > be deleted.
> > >
> > >"Similarly" in the 5th paragraph is not very clear. Similar to what?
> > >And shouldn't it be "Azeri"?
> > >
> > >Clause 4.2 Attributes or metadata?
> > >
> > >I would like to add that often the author is not able to control the
> > >metadata. It is handled by the server, and in any large organization
> > >the bureaucratic obstacles make it too difficult for most authors to
> > >manage, even if they are aware of it, which they may not be.

You can easily write something in the meta  element specifying the content 
language if you write in html; in addition many applications will insert a 
content language now and you have the option of setting that just as you do 
in Word (though Word does not produce the nicest html markup; it depends 
what you want).

Otherwise, yes you have to go into the source code to insert the text 
processing language for the document.  (the most important one to set it 
seems may be the language in the html tag).
You have to have access to server settings if you want to set the language 
in the headers that the server puts on.

That's basically what that draft says.

(It is very easy to get convoluted when you write something long, as I 
should know, and that is my main criticism of that draft, it gets a bit 
convoluted here and there)
> > >
> > >Jony
> > >

Rates near 39yr lows!  $430K Loan for $1,399/mo - Paying Too Much? Calculate 
new payment 
Received on Sunday, 11 March 2007 19:50:36 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 6 January 2015 22:04:25 UTC