W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-international@w3.org > January to March 2007

RE: CSS3 Text - Edit suggestions

From: Paul Nelson (ATC) <paulnel@winse.microsoft.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 08:36:48 -0800
Message-ID: <49C257E2C13F584790B2E302E021B6F9128C9809@winse-msg-01.segroup.winse.corp.microsoft.com>
To: John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org>, fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
CC: Bert Bos <bert@w3.org>, <www-style@w3.org>, WWW International <www-international@w3.org>

> Just so.  For example, Mongolian (strongly top-to-bottom) is rotated
> clockwise to embed it in Arabic script, but counterclockwise to
> embed it in Cyrillic or Latin script.

Please provide an illustration of this assertion. Any modern cases I
have seen the horizontal Mongolian text reads from left-to-right, while
Arabic reads from right-to-left.

I have seen cases of ancient books where the Arabic baseline was rotated
180 degrees so the Arabic text hung from top of the page to the bottom.
However, any current day printings have Arabic script sharing a baseline
oriented with Mongolian and English so it pushes from bottom to top.


In fact, line-height is a concept of ascender + descender + leading.
Regardless of the escapement or glyph orientation of the line the
ascender is from the baseline to the ascent and from the baseline to the
descent. 


Paul 



-----Original Message-----
From: www-style-request@w3.org [mailto:www-style-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of John Cowan
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 11:36 PM
To: fantasai
Cc: Bert Bos; www-style@w3.org; 'WWW International'
Subject: Re: CSS3 Text - Edit suggestions


fantasai scripsit:

> >In both our vertical modes (rl and lr), the baseline is rotated the 
> >same way, isn't it? So 'left' is always top and 'right' always
bottom. 
> >Maybe it is useful to add that as a note: "(I.e., text is aligned at 
> >the bottom.)"
> 
> This is true by default, but it may not be true for specific values
> of glyph-orientation: rotating glyphs rotates their baseline.
> glyph-orientation can make glyphs stand upright in a column, but it
> can also turn the line 180deg to face the other way.

Just so.  For example, Mongolian (strongly top-to-bottom) is rotated
clockwise to embed it in Arabic script, but counterclockwise to
embed it in Cyrillic or Latin script.

Spell it out:  "In vertical mode, 'left' means 'top' and 'right'
means 'bottom'"

(If indeed this is true: is it true of vertical Ogham, which the
Unicode Standard (wrongly, in my view) says is strongly bottom-to-top?)

> How is 'line-height' biased towards horizontal text?

Is not the line-height of vertical text in fact a horizontally measured
distance?

-- 
John Cowan  cowan@ccil.org  http://ccil.org/~cowan
If I have seen farther than others, it is because I am surrounded by
dwarves.
        --Murray Gell-Mann
Received on Tuesday, 20 February 2007 16:36:23 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Tuesday, 2 June 2009 19:17:09 GMT