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Migration to CSS (Re: including ruby in an xhtml 1 transitional doc)

From: Mark Davis <mark@macchiato.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:05:44 -0700
Message-ID: <005001c222a3$1b8415d0$8900a8c0@c1340594a>
To: "Chris Lilley" <chris@w3.org>
Cc: <www-international@w3.org>, "w3c-i18n-ig" <w3c-i18n-ig@w3.org>

Chris,

What I think many people would appreciate is a table that of
correspondences between every single HTML attribute (in context) and
CSS syntax that would replace it. This may exist somewhere, but I
can't find it. It would seem to be a fairly important piece of getting
people to migrate to CSS.

Some of the correspondences are fairly trivial:

<p>The <font face="Whimsy ICG">quick</font> brown fox.</p>
<p>The <span style="font-family:Whimsy ICG">quick</span> brown
fox.</p>

Others are a bit of a mystery. Take table borders for example. Someone
starts with example #1 below, and wants to replace the attribute
"border='1'" with CSS.

#1
<table border="1">
  <tr>
    <td>The</td>
    <td>quick</td>
  </tr>
</table>

He first thinks that #2 would give the same result (in IE, for
example):

#2
<table style="border-style: solid; border-width: 1">
  <tr>
    <td>The</td>
    <td>quick</td>
  </tr>
</table>

Nope, because #1 has lines around the cells, and #2 doesn't. So he
tries:

#3
<table style="border-style: solid; border-width: 1">
  <tr>
    <td style="border-style: solid; border-width: 1">The</td>
    <td style="border-style: solid; border-width: 1">quick</td>
  </tr>
</table>

Not quite the same either, since #1 has a 'ridge' effect, which is
missing in the new one. Trying different combinations, he might be
lead to:

<table style="border-style: ridge; border-width: 4" ;>
  <tr>
    <td style="border-style: ridge; padding: 0">The</td>
    <td style="border-style: ridge; padding: 0">quick</td>
  </tr>
</table>

But that looks very bizarre; both the table and each cell are
outlined. He can't get them to collapse together. He is about to give
up and keep the original attributes; trying to figure out what works
in CSS is too painful. But at last, he stumbles upon:

<table style="border: outset 1px;">
  <tr>
    <td style="border: inset 1px">The</td>
    <td style="border: inset 1px">quick</td>
  </tr>
</table>

It would make migration to CSS a whole lot easier if there were a
table somewhere on the W3C site that showed people the exact
correspondences without everyone having to stumble along and guess!

Mark
__________
http://www.macchiato.com
◄  “Eppur si muove” ►

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Lilley" <chris@w3.org>
To: <www-international@w3.org>; "Tex Texin" <tex@i18nguy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 03:59
Subject: Re: including ruby in an xhtml 1 transitional doc


>
> On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, 9:24:37 AM, Tex wrote:
>
>
>
> TT> I have an xhtml transitional page which is using Ruby.
>
> TT> I would like it to validate. If I change to XML 1.1 which
includes Ruby
> TT> it seems I have to make it a more strictly XML conforming doc.
>
> Both XHTML 1.0 and 1.1 use XML. There is no notion of 'more strictly
> conforming' to XML.
>
>
> TT> What is the proper way to add ruby to a 1.0 transitional doc,
>
> aha, you refer to 'transitional' vs 'strict'. Yes, transitional is
> being phased out. There is little presentational gloss remaining in
> transitional that you can't do (better) with CSS.
>
> TT>  or
> TT> alternatively to
> TT> have a 1.1. doc that accepts the older html markup?
>
> TT> The page in question is:
> TT> http://www.i18nguy.com/unicode/unicode-example-ruby.html
>
> That file is not even well formed. So since its not XML, its not
XHTML
> 1.0.
>
> Six edits (missing spaces between attributes, missing quotes around
> attribute values) made it well formed.
>
> It was then invalid, because of the ruby, as you note.
>
> Altering the doctype to XHTML 1.1 strict showed a couple of errors -
> use of the lang attribute (easily fixed by deletion, xml:lang was
> already there, or by search and replace to xml:lang if not).
>
> Then there was the ultra-simple presentational stuff
>
> <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFED" link="#0000EE"
> vlink="#551A8B" alink="#FF0000">
>
> totally simple to replace in less than a minute. You already had a
> link to a stylesheet anyway. And some gratuitous use of center tags,
> again not needed because class="ctr" looks like there is styling
> applied ... and some bare text not inside paragraphs a couple of
> places ... and use of the name attribute instead of the id attribute
> for link destinations.
>
> Thats it. 7 minutes elapsed time (including blow by blow commentary
> email), valid XHTML 1.1 strict document. XML Spy is wonderful ;-)
>
> Should I mail it to you?
>
>
> --
>  Chris                            mailto:chris@w3.org
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 3 July 2002 11:04:16 GMT

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